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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New Zealand wants to introduce Self-ID - article by Meghan Murphy

65 replies

Scrumplestiltskin · 24/11/2018 22:32

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/10/30/new-zealand-green-lighting-gender-identity-ideology-policy-without-considering-consequences/
A few excerpts:
Official Information Act requests have revealed that there are currently approximately 33 trans-identified males in New Zealand prisons, and that 18 are in for violent crimes, including sexual assault. Seven of these individuals are are currently housed in women’s prisons (though none have sexual assault convictions). Corrections has admitted that, since January 2017, at least six assaults have been perpetrated by trans-identified prisoners in women’s prisons.
And
This year, Malcolm “Morgana” Platt returned to prison after grooming a 10-year-old girl for prostitution. Platt had already been jailed in 2009 for raping a 16-year-old who later took her own life. Rory Francis, who identifies as a woman, is also currently incarcerated and has been sentenced three times for raping children. Pierre Parsons is under supervision, since he continues to harass young girls after kidnapping and raping a 12-year-old in 1995, and stealing her clothing to wear. In 2017, Cameron “Cinnamon” Hakeke and Alex Seu, who both identify as women, were sentenced for violent crimes: Hakeke kidnapped a 19-year-old woman before dragging her into a flat, cutting her hair and tasering her. Seu pleaded guilty on three charges of indecent assault and two of sexual violation, one of which involved Seu dragging a drunk man into an alleyway and pushing him into a brick wall. In 2014, “Shelley” Williams pleaded guilty to three charges of assault, following prior convictions for violent crimes in 2000, 2009, 2010 and 2011. In 2010, Hendrix “Hina” Tutaki assaulted a pregnant woman and a “transwoman” named Glen Cooper pleaded guilty to wounding with intent to injure.
And
This discourse has impacted women’s sports in New Zealand outside women’s gyms. Anton “Kate” Weatherly competed as a man in mountain biking competitions until he decided to compete as a “woman” in January, winning the elite women’s division at the national championships near Wanaka in February. Prior to his “transition” (which includes hormone therapy — testosterone levels are still acknowledged as indicative of sex in sport) he had competed in grades lower than elite, usually finishing mid-pack. Gavin “Laurel” Hubbard represented New Zealand in women’s weightlifting in the 2018 Commonwealth Games, having already taken gold in the Australian International women’s weightlifting championships in 2017, when he lifted 42 lbs more than Samoan silver medalist Iuniarra Sipaia.
[...] HRC advisor for sexual orientation, gender identity, and sex characteristics Taine Polkinghorne said:
“There is no valid reason to exclude trans women from competitive women’s sports. Laurel is a woman — not a man masquerading as a woman to gain medals or glory…
… Participation in sport and physical activity is a human right.”

This is all so terribly worrying and depressing, especially in light of the silencing of women across social media ramping up, lately. They are genuinely trying to crush our ability to even protest! It's become sincerely Orwellian, and it's frightening. What can we even do? Sad

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UpstartCrow · 24/11/2018 22:34

''Participation in sport and physical activity is a human right.”

Dr Rachel McKinnon has been pushing this line on Twitter, while sidestepping the point that it is not a human right to win by any means necessary.

Ereshkigal · 24/11/2018 22:37

Mckinnon also believes it shouldn't be a requirement to drop testosterone level to compete against women. That is the endgame here I think.

Serfisafleur · 24/11/2018 22:38

No one is denying anyone's participation in sport, keeping sport segregated by sex. Surely it's a human right for women to have women's sport.

It wouldn't surprise me if NZ were the next to implement selfish-ID. After all, they legalised prostitution.

Scrumplestiltskin · 24/11/2018 22:41

Absolutely, UpstartCrow
Honestly I don't see how participation in sport is a human right, personally. Certainly not professional sport at least. And most definitely not a right to participate in the opposite sex's category.
Plenty of people have health conditions that prevent them from participating in sport at a competitive level - imo being transgender should be treated the same way.

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VickyEadie · 24/11/2018 22:42

You might have the 'right' to participate in sport with others of the same sex.

FermatsTheorem · 24/11/2018 22:46

It's not a human right to compete in women's sport. There's nothing to stop these people competing in men's sport after all.

But what a grim catalogue of individuals in prison. And when put together with the post one of our New Zealand contributors made the other day about the sky high prevalence of sexual violence against girl children and teens in NZ paints a very depressing picture indeed.

Yarnswift · 25/11/2018 09:26

I love NZ. I lived there for a couple of years. This is so depressing :(

I’m actually quite surprised as well. I know living somewhere for a bit only scratches the surface of a culture but it never seemed like a particularly ‘woke’place to me. It seemed very wedded to reality.

MN Kiwis- is the whole country into this or is it an urban thing?

CartoonCat · 25/11/2018 09:33

I’m kiwi. Tbh I think the trans-debate just hasn’t mainstreamed at all yet so hasn’t been thought through. If I wasn’t on MN I probably wouldn’t have really heard about it at all.

CartoonCat · 25/11/2018 09:34

I mean it’s not a conscious thing at all, rather something people haven’t really heard about so haven’t formed opinions on yet.

Yarnswift · 25/11/2018 09:37

So a bit like Scotland? Done in the backrooms and the populace unaware?

I bet this stuff is easier to get through in smaller countries

Ereshkigal · 25/11/2018 09:39

I bet this stuff is easier to get through in smaller countries

YY. Hence Ireland, Malta, Portugal.

CartoonCat · 25/11/2018 09:40

I do think that article is sensationalist though and has taken statistics and quotes out of context.

FermatsTheorem · 25/11/2018 15:38

Well, sensationalist in the sense that it is drawing attention to sensationally terrible things being done to women's rights...

I mean, if you think it's mere "sensationalism" to object to a male-bodied sex offender being placed in a women's prison, does this mean you're okay with it in general. That objecting to the principle on the grounds that occasionally something bad happens (and focusing on that occasional event is "sensationalism") is wrong, because for the most part things work out fine (as in, the transwoman imprisoned for fraud or shoplifting merely makes their fellow inmates feel uncomfortable, rather than actually attacking them). So how many males in women's prisons do we need before we're allowed to object? Can we not talk about the Karen Whites of this world, because there's only a handful of White's victims and it's therefore "sensationalism"?

Are a few male-bodied individuals in women's sports okay, despite the fact that these distinctly mediocre sportspeople (mediocre when competing as men) suddenly start scooping up medals when allowed to compete in women's sport?

crsacre · 25/11/2018 17:00

NZ is odd. Adjusting for population,
—there are far more transwomen in prison than in the UK
—the NZ equivalent to Mermaids/GI (Rainbow Kids) receives more funding.

medium.com/@gckiwi1234/erasure-kiwi-gays-and-lesbians-are-being-erased-from-their-own-movement-81e1ac8152dd

BigotedWoman · 25/11/2018 17:53

That list of crimes is sobering.

Yeahnahyeah · 25/11/2018 22:42

I'm a kiwi too, and agree with Yarnswift that there is not much awareness in NZ yet. Our Prime Minister is woke as, and self ID is in the works.

Yeahnahyeah · 25/11/2018 22:45

I only found out about the whole trans issue a week ago, and have pretty much been on this site learning, and aghast, ever since.

OtepotiLilliane42 · 26/11/2018 06:22

I have to confess that I have been lurking for a while on the Mumsnet feminist chat board, and very much enjoy the humour and sharpness of the contributors. Like some on this thread I only discovered some weeks ago that we were likely to get self identification thrust upon us here in New Zealand with absolutely no thought given to the possibilities of predatory males invading women's spaces under the guise of 'being' women. I remain amazed that no one on the Select committee saw the implications of this move.

In response to this poor legislation I have emailed my local MP, who happens to be an old friend from many years ago, so I know that he will take my concerns seriously. He is also the Minister of Health in the current government, with a young family, so I asked him to especially look at the alarming rise of children being referred for gender change medication, with all the horrendous consequence for their future health.

I have also signed the speakupforwomen petition, which I found on Mumsnet, so thank you to the person who posted it. I used my real name, which some who left comments didn't feel comfortable doing, for fear of possible retaliation. Which is a sad commentary on the shutting down of free speech in New Zealand.

I gritted my teeth and emailed the opposition spokesperson for Women's Affairs ( I am staunchly Labour) to raise my concerns on this ill-thought out legislation, and I intend to email our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern this week with my concerns. She really does need to listen, as do some of the coalition women MPs who have labelled all women who dare to raise their voices on this matter as hateful bigots.

After that I am going to have a rest from being in a permanent state of anger and despair and try to focus on something more positive!
I am 71 years old, have always been a feminist and supporter of Lesbian and Gay rights, and have no animosity towards the transgender community, but it includes troubling elements now who have hijacked debate, and they need to be called out.

I apologise for this long post, but it will be my only one on this subject, unless I get some positive responses from my MP and the PM, in which case I will post again!

Yeahnahyeah · 26/11/2018 20:59

Thankyou OtipotiLilianne for showing me a way forward (contacting MPs etc) and also for expressing our concerns so well.

NotMeOhNo · 26/11/2018 21:11

Tasmania is a small, conservative entity too. Easily groomed behind closed doors.

Scrumplestiltskin · 27/11/2018 03:15

Nice to see other GC kiwis here Smile

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WhistlerGrey · 27/11/2018 03:45

I’m in NZ the way the debate has been controlled is shameful. The proposed change covering self ID was introduced later in the legislative process, Tracey Martin the Minister in charge of this refuses to be interviewed, a labour MP was caught referring to ‘fucking Terfs’ and the green MPs mirror the same pro self ID line or you’re a transphobic nazi as UK Greens.

I would say that in the last few days it has felt as thought the gender critical line has gained some traction.

KeiTeNgeNge · 27/11/2018 04:03

I’m a kiwi and there’s been nothing much here apart from a joke in a Herald on getting out of dog registration fees by having dog self identify as a cat. All my info is coming from here and I have been sharing my views with friends

Yeahnahyeah · 27/11/2018 04:18

Whistlergrey or other kiwis, can you point me in the direction of some NZ sites where there are GC discussions?

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