I Don’t Want to Talk About Trans Any More

[ToeCleavage]

As in, I’m just so fucking bored with it.

By which I don’t mean it’s not relevant or important that we debate these issues.

Just that they have - even negatively- infiltrated our spaces in every way possible. Even what we talk about.

What the fuck? Where will it all end?

I don’t care about trans issues. I did, once. Now I couldn’t give a flying fuck.

Stop impinging on our spaces!

I talk about them (trans issues) because there is still a chance we can influence the law and policy. If we try our hardest and we don't succeed then at least we won't have regrets. Giving up now means all the effort we've put in so far will be wasted.

I know you’re right. I just resent how much they’ve infiltrated our conversations to the detriment of us talking about things that affect born women. I’m so sick of it.

Speaking as someone in the states, we need to start caring about trans issues as much as English radfems :/

Just to reiterate - or explain in case I haven’t made it clear - I think this is one of the hugest challenges facing born women and feminism in my lifetime. This thread was started in anger and frustration because I don’t want to talk about THEIR issues any more. They are not MY issues and I’m sick of our needs being subsumed to placate them.

Yes. The problem of male violence should not be for women to solve. The problem of male entitlement should not be for women to solve.

I agree - it's time for us to set our own agenda and not keep responding to their provocations and bullying. We've had to resist and respond due to the GRA. Now it's time to stop centring them and their antics and start the conversation about how we consolidate all the gains we feminists have made and how we hold our politicians, lawmakers & enforcers, welfare agencies etc to account. How do we ensure women and children's needs are centred going forward?

Absolutely agree OP.

Speaking to others I think most ordinary people are sick of having it all rammed down their throats all the time as well.

I know what you mean, fellow Toe

I think self-ID is going to be pushed through in law whatever - and is the biggest assault on women's rights in a century. I'm sick of it - the gall of TAs to say that women like Julie Bindel aren't "real feminists" because they won't centre trans ideology in feminism. The distraction from women's causes, the assault on women's freedom, privacy, dignity, women's opportunities being taken away in sport and business. God it makes me so angry.

Oh, I relate to all of this!

We need to keep fighting for women's rights of course, but it would be nice to reframe our arguments going forwards.

It's just so bloody insidious and childish and tiring, and how do you argue logically and scientifically about something that's neither logical or scientific 🤔?

I would imagine trans people would be very happy to be out of the media spotlight. I’ve noticed that the majority of conversations about trans issues have been driven by articles in the news, like those written by Janice Turner etc, and as a direct result of actions of groups like WPUK and FairPlay For Women (adverts in the Metro etc). Also, I’ve witnessed many a thread here become derailed by trans issues (wasn’t there an NSPCC live chat event that got stopped because they were swamped with trans related questions from women here?)

I’d agree with the OP that the conversation has become incredibly boring, fixated as it is on trans issues. Please can we move on and talk about the multitude of other issues that face women and put our energies into tackling those?

I know, OP.

I spent a large chunk of September out leafleting for Fair Play for Women, I talk a lot about this on social media, I've had letters in several papers, been running the gauntlet of TRA protesters at events since Speakers' Corner, explained to friends & family & donated to multiple crowdfunders...

I wish the whole issue would just go away & we could focus on women. But then I think about where we were 18 months ago & where we are now. And the only reason everyone knows what's going on now, that people are talking about it, is that we women started making a racket. And that makes me proud.

Wouldn't it be lovely if we didn't have to focus so much energy on this? We do, though.

Please can we move on and talk about the multitude of other issues that face women and put our energies into tackling those?

Unfortunately we cannot do so without referencing the issue of trans.

The issues that women face all, ultimately, boil down to biology. Trans ideology erases biology. If we ignore trans ideology we will lose everything.

Trans-activists complain that 'our' feminism is not intersectional, because we focus on females. But rational, biology-driven feminism is truly intersectional because it also protects vulnerable members of society, such as children and hospital patients, both female and male.

Female-focused feminism protects the whole of society.

I don’t care about trans issues. I did, once. Now I couldn’t give a flying fuck.

This.

I hate that organisations like Stonewall and PinkNews have co-opted trans “issues” to the detriment of actual real life problems that affect infinitely more gay and lesbian people.

I hate that the hysteria from TRAs has made me sceptical every time I hear about an issue affecting LGB people, where as before I would have been immediately supportive.

Well said JellySlice - this is a hugely important issue 🙌🏻.

Feminists talk about it a lot because it significantly affects women and their rights.

can we move on and talk about the multitude of other issues that face women
How can we 'move on' when our experience is being appropriated, our hard-won rights are being eroded and we are being denied the language we need to describe and challenge the discrimination and disadvantage we suffer because of our biology? How??

Our language is being distorted and restricted 1984 style. I don't know how we move on from that

Saying we're sick of talking about it is not the same as saying we don't need to talk about it. We do.

While our spaces, language and dignity are appropriated and erased, we cannot move on. And even if the GRA amendments pass we must keep on talking about it until it’s either reversed and also to empower our daughters to say no.

I am fed up to the back teeth of trans this and trans that tbh. I’d much rather talk about something else, but of course it’s trans that is posing the biggest danger to women and girls privacy and safety atm, and the sex class of women and girls is being erased, and if that happens we won’t be able to talk about women and girls privacy and safety at all. And yes I hate having to focus on another group in order to tackle issues for women and girls, but as always, another group has put themselves in the way. You want to talk about women and girls, well, you have to talk about us too, otherwise you’re being exclusionary. I’d love the freedom to be exclusionary in my feminist discourse atm, but I’m not allowed, and until such a time where that other group gets out of the way so we are allowed to discuss issues facing women and girls without interference and infiltration from that other group, I, we, will have to continue discussing that group. But yes, it really does suck, horribly.

While our spaces, language and dignity are appropriated and erased, we cannot move on. And even if the GRA amendments pass we must keep on talking about it until it’s either reversed and also to empower our daughters to say no.

I agree. This is foundational. Nothing else for it but to keep on keeping on.

But I feel the OP's pain. It's deeply infuriating to have to do this when there is so much else that needs addressing.

God yes. There's enough to worry about in the world for women and girls. Now some men decide they are women and we end up having spend our time fighting to stop ridiculousnesss like Karen White, men being women's officers, men winning women's sports, men winning women's awards, men being showcased as the top women in various arenas. FFS.

I wouldn't mind if it was I know I'm a man but would it be OK if you let me join in with this women's thing please? and a refusal is accepted.

All this flat earth crap of a man can be an actual woman makes me fear for society. It's religion.

I grew up with deeply religious people. I refuse to bow to false dogma! Being faced with magical thinking obvious lies most definitely "triggers" me. It really really pisses me off that the government, some media and various official bodies are trying to force a religious magical thinking dogma on me. Come on. It is the UK. We are better than that.

Well that attempt to redirect this thread into a discussion about how we should all just shut up about the problems trans activism is causing for women upthread went well!

I wish the whole issue would just go away & we could focus on women. But then I think about where we were 18 months ago & where we are now. And the only reason everyone knows what's going on now, that people are talking about it, is that we women started making a racket. And that makes me proud.

Me too

Sick of it too but every day brings a new outrage we have to deal with. What breaks my heart more than anything is the young women being brainwashed by these misogynistic bullying arseholes. That really hurts.