Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scottish consultation results

39 replies

Pimmsnlemonade · 24/11/2018 00:42

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/majority-opt-for-self-declaring-gender-in-government-consultation-bph5lvwvb

The number of responses seems low (I believe it's over 100,000 for the England and Wales consultation). I'm not sure if that is due to the smaller population (although the consultation was open to the rest of the UK) or fewer people being aware of it.

OP posts:
Pimmsnlemonade · 24/11/2018 00:46

Sorry, I haven't got a share token before anyone asks...

OP posts:
Pimmsnlemonade · 24/11/2018 00:52

This Twitter thread seems to have a different take on the results but I haven't got time to read through the consultation responses right now so will have to have a look for myself later:

twitter.com/indy_leya/status/1065944113726537728

OP posts:
jellyfrizz · 24/11/2018 08:08

Grr. The consultation asked questions about declaring gender.

I’ve got no problem with people self declaring their gender identity. I don’t think this should have any bearing on legal sex however.

I wonder what the results would have looked like if they had used the word sex instead?

Twooter · 24/11/2018 08:10

I wonder what the results would have looked like if people without a particular interest had even known it was going on.

BetsyM00 · 24/11/2018 10:54

Thanks for the share token. Articles in the Scotsman and Herald as well:

www.scotsman.com/news/scotland-set-to-be-first-country-in-uk-to-recognise-third-gender-1-4834309
www.heraldscotland.com/news/17253160.scots-back-new-laws-to-allow-people-to-self-declare-gender/

Particularly misleading title in the Scotsman: "Scotland set to be first country in UK to recognise third gender".

It's important to know that the consultation was directed at LGBT groups, it wasn't put forward as an issue that affected women at all. No women groups were consulted about the framework of the questions and only a partial (useless) impact statement was done.

PencilsInSpace · 24/11/2018 11:27

I think 15,697 is an astonishing number of responses to a government consultation, let alone one that ostensibly only affects Scotland.

100,000 responses to the England and Wales one is even more astonishing! I wouldn't be surprised if that's a record.

For comparison, the UK trans equality inquiry in 2015 got 209 responses.

This consultation on the two child benefit limit (rape clause) got 82 responses.

This one on PIP assessments had a better response:

Over 1700 individuals and organisations responded to the Call for Evidence, which was issued at the start of this Review. This is a significant increase from the 800 responses received by the first Review.

This one on mental health provision for children and young people garnered 2700 responses.

This consultation on closing the gender pay gap got 'almost 700' responses.

arranfan · 24/11/2018 11:35

I think 15,697 is an astonishing number of responses to a government consultation, let alone one that ostensibly only affects Scotland.

100,000 responses to the England and Wales one is even more astonishing! I wouldn't be surprised if that's a record.

Relative populations: www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates

Wouldn't that make Scotland's responses relatively approx. (crudely) double that of England and Wales? (Headache in progress, I may be wrong.)

arranfan · 24/11/2018 11:48

I will say that a very important issues like caste did muster 16,000+ responses.

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2018-07-23/HCWS898/

OP posts:
ScrimshawTheSecond · 24/11/2018 12:18

I live in Scotland and I didn't even know about the consultation.

arranfan · 24/11/2018 12:18

Pg 20.

A breakdown of the number of responses received by respondent type and by area is set out in Table 1 below. Overall, 49% of respondents to the consultation are resident in Scotland, with 38% resident in the rest of the UK and the remaining 13% resident elsewhere in the world. The majority of organisational respondents, 63%, were based in Scotland. Amongst the organisational respondents, the Trans Group was the only one in which the majority of respondents were not based in Scotland.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 24/11/2018 13:21

Like the English/Welsh consultation, this one was supposed to happen quietly and involve only mostly LGBT organisations. The results are due to urgent mobilisation by women's groups including MN to get responses, and equal mobilisation by LGBT/TRA groups to get responses.

However it says everything. It's all down there. They've recorded all the relevant points, they can't say they weren't told or didn't know, and they have clear evidence of what the concerns are and that women are ready to act if they take action that is damaging to women's rights.

LemonJello · 24/11/2018 13:51

However it says everything. It's all down there. They've recorded all the relevant points, they can't say they weren't told or didn't know, and they have clear evidence of what the concerns are and that women are ready to act if they take action that is damaging to women's rights.

Totally agree with this.

Yes, the aim was to get the consultation done on the QT (we know this was a deliberate tactic from the report from the “Still Here” conference).

And this tactic worked. We know from several opinion polls that the Scottish (or rUK) public is not in favour of self id, therefore this consultation is not representative.

But it doesn’t really matter because the salient points have all been raised.

I think it is extremely important to draw attention to just how out of step the supposed “women’s” organisations in Scotland are with women’s concerns.

Engender should be on the front line, representing these concerns from women, instead they are firmly in the pocket of the trans orgs. They are not fit for purpose. They had one job and have failed, dismally, to consult and properly represent the views of women.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 24/11/2018 15:55

Response to results.

twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1066305799625019392?s=20

Wrathofjurgenklop · 24/11/2018 17:17

How many of us knew outsiders could respond to the consultation?
I wouldn't respond to the Scottish for the obvious reason, I'm not Scottish.

Clearly many activists think differently.
Funny that.

I'm rather glad I found that out. Smile

Knicknackpaddyflak · 24/11/2018 20:55

Thanks for that link Alice that's interesting reading.

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 24/11/2018 21:59

The Scottish consultation was problematic for so many reasons. It was targeted as an LGBT issue, so many responses were under advice from Stonewall. It came out before the RUK so there wasn't the same exposure - the media didn't catch on until the RUK one caught fire. Women's orgs didn't feed into the framing and were told it wouldn't affect us.

Anyway, this is being recognised. And, despite it all, the respondents with concerns highlighted the issues of women's rights.

traceyracer · 24/11/2018 22:03

I think scotland only has 1 million people compared to over 50 million for England

arranfan · 24/11/2018 22:11

I think scotland only has 1 million people compared to over 50 million for England

According to the ONS link above, Scotland is approx 5.5million, Wales approx. 3.11 and England 56million.

LemonJello · 24/11/2018 22:17

Think there’s about 5 million in Scotland?

One of the most important things that this consultation proves, is that there is a big fucking conflict between trans rights and women’s rights

Much as Stonewall say we do not and will not acknowledge this”, I’m afraid that they now have to.

Red flags have been raised all over the shop about this proposed law, and they will have to be addressed, whether Stonewall and cronies like it or not.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/11/2018 22:36

I would love to see a breakdown of the answers by sex..

LemonJello · 24/11/2018 22:43

I would love to see a breakdown of the answers by sex

It will be meaningless tho. All the proponents of self id will...self id.

Serfisafleur · 24/11/2018 22:52

Exactly. How many "women" would have answered in favour of selfish-ID... Makes data collection by sex meaningless.

Flooffloof · 24/11/2018 23:02

Oh god I want to cry, here I am with sodding period agony pains and wishing I could just bloody identity out of them. Knowing that's bullshit.
And yet we will soon be overrun with self identifying women.
Just fucking marvellous

Swipe left for the next trending thread