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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bob Withers on GMB and This Morning today

133 replies

HandsOffMyRights · 19/11/2018 07:38

Psychoanalyst Bob, who wrote the excellent piece for yesterday's Mail, has just gone head tp head with India W on GMB. I didn't see it, but there's plus one and catch up.

He's on This morning at 10.30.

OP posts:
AspieAndProud · 20/11/2018 19:59

What he was doing as pointing out that those girls with ROGD had obviously been copying each other's homework.

That’s another parallel with the Satanic abuse scandal. Kids repeating the same claims word for word.

And that was before the Internet.

LuvSmallDogs · 20/11/2018 22:05

Trans people swapping notes online on which clinic to go to and what to say to get hormones goes back at least a decade.

For a wee while I thought I might be trans as a teen so hung out on LJ comms etc. I think my hatred for my sex was a reaction to old CSA trauma getting brought back by all these men and boys harassing me or even groping me because I’d sprouted tits. I used to fantasise about being a man - having sex as a man, being successful as a man, I would look at male catalogue models and daydream of becoming them.

I trawled for FTM sites again when my sister declared she was my brother. The “say this, go here” is way more widespread than it used to be - and it used to get a little pushback too, with some trans people saying “hey, it’s annoying, but don’t lie to your Dr, they’re trying to help”. Now any gatekeeping from Drs is treated as though it were some sort of human rights abuse by TRAs.

HandsOffMyRights · 21/11/2018 06:54

Thanks Orchid.

How anyone could have the audacity to dismiss the 35 per cent stat is beyond me.

I know it's bad when I find myself wishing for Willoughby instead!!!!!

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Ereshkigal · 21/11/2018 08:19

Great work (again) Orchid! Don't feel you have to but I'd certainly love to read more if you decide to do any more!

R0wantrees · 21/11/2018 08:41

I know it's bad when I find myself wishing for Willoughby instead!!!!!

If you read what IW actually says, similar things become apparent.

Dr Nicola Williams on Good Morning Britain interview February 2018:
"Straight off India started to derail the discussion by suggesting women’s fears are about a predatory man dressing as a woman to gain access to women. India was also claiming women are fear-mongering that transwomen are some how a danger to women. No. If you listen to what we say India this is about vulnerable women who want, deserve and need a female-only space to recover and heal from the trauma of male abuse. Like it or not, a woman seeking refuge with her children does not want to be confronted with someone she perceives as male, no matter how they identify. This is about the needs of a woman seeking refuge being prioritised over the needs of a trans-identifying male seeking employment.

Suzanne Reid tries to bring the conversation back to the topic, but India is straight in there again with the old chestnut ‘but what about the lesbians!’ India was now claiming that because some women will be abused by their lesbian partners that women staff should be barred. At last Karen is allowed to speak. “A woman and her lesbian partner would of course not be allowed in the same refuge, but statistically we know that when we are talking about sexual and domestic violence men are much more likely to be the perpetrators and women much more likely to be the victims”.

I often hear the argument thrown in by men that lesbians should be banned from women’s toilets, changing rooms etc etc. This is based on the false premise that women are at risk because both men and lesbian women are sexually attracted to women. Sexual and physical violence against women is not because perpetrators are sexually attracted to them – it is based on power, aggression and dominance – the same power and dominance that is embedded within and encouraged by the patriarchal system we all live in. This is about the imbalance of the male vs female dynamic which women grow up being aware of from early girlhood. Women, particularly if abused by men, are acutely aware of a male’s physical presence, his demeanour, his powerful place within society. It is this – the social conditioning all woman have undergone – the unconscious associations they carry within them – that means that women NEED a male-free space sometimes. That social conditioning affects us all as women – we see it in Karen, the expert in the room no less, as she waits for her turn while the males speak. I felt it inside me as I sat in the studio not wanting to interrupt or come over too aggressively. We see the male privilege that both Piers and India have grown up with pushing them on – allowing them to speak with such confidence on areas they know very little about. If we closed our eyes and just listened – there would be no doubt who was born male and who was born female around that table.

And then India pounces in for the killer blow, turning to Karen who had just dared to interrupt and give her views. India said “you accept that transgender women aren’t men, yeah?” “If I got beaten in a relationship would I be welcome?” Karen replies that India should have access to a specialist refuge for transwomen to an indignant India who declares “A specialist refuge – but they don’t exist”.

Let’s just unpack that for a minute. First, it is already the policy of some shelters, such as Women’s Aid, to allow male-born transwomen refuge on a case-by-case basis. India would not have no where to go. Secondly, how does India think specialised refuge’s for women came into existence? Women campaigned and fought for their existence that’s how. Something that the transgender community can and should be doing for themselves rather than expecting and demanding access to under-funded and over-stretched services that are not designed for their particular needs.

Without pausing to let Karen speak India then crossed a line – a line that has lost h all respect from me and I hope all the women watching – India dared to tell Karen that her website contains a list of crimes committed by men and that this was is a great demonisation.

“I feel really sorry for guys this year – I think they’ve had it really tough”.

India was referring to this; the list of 138 women killed by their male partners or ex-partners last year. This is the annual list that Karen compiles every year with the details of every death in honour of these women. It is the work that told us for the first time that 2-3 woman are killed every week by intimate partners. Yet, all India can see is the vilification of men. I wonder why?" (continues)

fairplayforwomen.com/thank-india-w-showing-us-women-perceive-transwomen-still-male/

R0wantrees · 21/11/2018 08:46

& this is the opinon piece that India Willoughby wrote and was published by Pink News:

(extract)
"We’re heading for a modern day Stonewall riot – unless the government and media clamp down on what has become rampant transphobia.

Transgender people are being bullied and hounded like never before – and we need to be very careful about where all this unfettered hate dressed up as “free speech” is going.

The Sunday Times, Daily Mail and – wait for it – Mumsnet – are hounding trans women in the same way Hitler went about stigmatising Jewish people.

Seriously. That’s no exaggeration." (continues)

I defy anyone to visit Mumsnet right now, look up transgender, and tell me that the vicious and mocking threads about trans people would be allowed about any other demographic. It’s the stuff of pitchforks and lanterns. The same rhetoric about race, religion on sexuality would lead to prosecutions and official condemnation.

Mumsnet CEO Justine Roberts squeals that trans people highlighting the content – including threads which out trans people – to some of the site’s main advertisers is out of order. She describes it as an attack on free speech. This might be a shock to Justine, but trans people have free speech, too.

There’s even a debate about introducing a new trans Section 28, clamping down on educating the public about what transgender is.

Justine is adamant there’s nothing transphobic on Mumsnet. Only reasoned debate. She wants transgender visitors to Mumsnet to be “happy and supported.” It feels reminiscent of when Cruella de Vil opens a home for stray dogs in 101 Dalmatians.

As I say, take a look for yourself. Trans groups are more than happy to debate any subject Justine or her murky corner of the web wants – but the material on the site isn’t a discussion. It’s vicious, nasty persecution

Mumsnet’s reputation for transphobia is fully deserved. Hardliners openly strategise ways to make life tougher for trans people: Passengers warned not to travel on sleeper trains because they might end up in the same sleeping berth as a woman who’s trans. Support gathered to stop trans women being allowed on Labour’s all-women shortlists. National meeting organised where they can clap and cheer their hatred.

It’s all very similar to the way the National Front used to operate.

I’m sure most people who use the site are decent folk. They want nothing to do with the rabid mouth-frothing going on by so-called “feminists.”

And I say so-called “feminists” quite deliberately. It’s the point which is paralysing anyone doing anything about the situation. Because these radical groups are hiding under the “feminist” banner, Government and other institutions are reluctant to question them. They don’t want to be perceived as attacking “women’s rights.” (continues)
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/04/24/india-willoughby-transphobia-opinion-worried-for-my-life-mumsnet/

HandsOffMyRights · 21/11/2018 16:24

I take it all back R0wan!

OP posts:
R0wantrees · 21/11/2018 18:20
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