Law Commission consulting on paid surrogacy in the UK

[PimmsnLemonade]

Sorry, I've no share token:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/surrogate-mothers-could-be-allowed-to-charge-cash-gfktl290j

We tried altruistic surrogacy here in the UK, first with a SIL and then with a surrogate we were matched with through one of the big UK organisations. Sadly it didn't work and we turned to the big guns in the US

Definitely UK.

The idea that Thailand/ India=bad, USA=good when it comes to surrogacy is an exercise in denial I think.

I agree, USA is a very rich country, but that doesn't mean that poverty isn't a problem there.

Surrogacy organisations are selling something. It's their job to make their service as appealing as possible. They are not going to advertise potential surrogate mothers as poor and desperate.

I wonder if the term 'illegitimate' came from literature produced by the surrogacy organisations? It may be a less emotional term than 'the babies of single mothers'.

illegitimate is a less "emotional" term in which world?
it's a stark value judgement

it literally means "not legitimate"

other word you can substitiute is not "the babies of single mothers" but "bastards"

I doubt it's used differently in usa would be very surprised

Irrelevant, I know, but I'm just musing why the word was used, when I've not heard it being used to describe children for years.

I agree it's a horrible word to describe a child, but I don't think the poster meant it that way. I don't think she meant to imply anything negative about the children who were being adopted.

That's why I wondered if it used to suggest that these children don't have anyone to look after them, even though there is often a mother forced into giving their child up for adoption. That is, a term used to ignore the mother because it's easy to deal with the idea that the child has no one, than deal with the idea that there is a mother with no choice but to give up their child.

Sorry for the derailment.

Babies are not commodities to be handed over by poor women so they can be raised by richer women. How about lifting the poor single mother out of poverty?

Forgot to say, a lot of the narratives around surrogacy hinge on a nasty women as unfit mother trope.

"Babies are not commodities to be handed over by poor women so they can be raised by richer women"

And richer men.

Babies are not commodities to be handed over by poor women so they can be raised by richer women

Yes there seems to be an implication that poor women have the role of providing babies to solve the fertility issues of others- they aren't giving up their newborns anymore so they ought to carry babies for those who want them instead. Commercial surrogacy should not be seen as the next inevitable step if you can't adopt any more. Nobody is entitled to a child via the exploitation of others.

And men.

Need to keep writing that!

Fundamentally, if we can't buy and sell children and adults, why is it okay to sell babies? It isn't.

And you don't know who you're selling the baby to. That bloke in Australia who rejected his DS baby has a child abuse conviction.

There's a lot of money in child rape porn. I think you can see where I'm going with this.

this is a good point if you can sell a newborn why not a toddler or older child

The Baby M case in utterly desperate. I actually can’t believe the rights of the child didn’t trump and it was lawful to remove the child from its mother.

I do understand the need for surrogacy in the U.K. but for women who are infertile due to cancer etc. I am utterly against it being paid for.

There is no end to the erosion of women’s status

Can you link to the baby M case?

It's in the Spiked article that Barracker linked to on Thursday, Not.

I haven't read the full Baby M judgement but I don't think the baby was removed because of the surrogacy agreement was she? She used to post on MN and I think there were other issues that led to the child being deemed better placed with her father.

I'd need to read the judgement before commenting on that case. Whether you agree or not the biological father is the other parent and under the children act parents can apply for contact with their children.
I don't think baby M is the same case as the Spanish egg donor case is it? That mother had several older children. The Spanish donor case showed how the welfare principles of the children act are applied to cases of surrogacy. It's never the case that a baby would be removed from their mother because of the surrogacy contract solely, primarily or even tangentially

Reading a bit more on the Baby M case it is reported that the mother was hostile and abusive about the father, used homophobic slurs and also disrupted court proceedings. It would be very interesting to read the full judgement if it is available.

It will be available but anonymised so tricky to find without more details

The baby Z case was interesting and the judge came across as compassionate, but the birth mother and her family were so obviously just much nicer people.

I don't mean this in a derogatory way- but they could have been characters straight out of a Dickens' novel. The family was the archetypal plain but very decent, very kind empathetic working class family coping with a vulnerable family member.

I wonder if the decision would have been the same if they had simply been adequate rather than exceptional.

Bowlofbabelfish, egg donations in the UK are unpaid but clinics can give the donor "compensation" of upto £750 for expenses. I know of a young woman who did it recently to pay for a gift for their boyfriend. It made me extremely uneasy hearing about it and I suspect she's in an abusive relationship. :( I was quite shocked that donors are paid anything; it's a lot of money to someone poor and vulnerable.

@EverardDigby @MrsSpenserGregson
Any teacher will tell you the fall out from teaching children who have been adopted. Attachment disorder is painful and horrific and many of these children cannot come to terms with this invisible loss. I'm particularly thinking of one who was taken at hospital close after birth (so imo no different to a surrogate set up in terms of time spent with birth mother). The anger and grief is profound

@avocadoincident shame it wasn't acknowledged back when I was a child 40-odd years ago. Back then it was all "oh you're fine, we're just going to gloss over it all." I had to figure out my feelings for myself when I was decades into adulthood.

If attachment disorder (a phase I first heard on MN a few years ago and which gave me my lightbulb moment) is so widely known amongst the teaching community, I wonder why we allow surrogacy at all? . It seems like a no-brainer to me.

@Materialist brilliant post

Attachment disorder isn't caused by separation as an infant. That's not to say it doesn't lead to attachment difficulties