How to raise a strong daughter

[AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo]

Long time lurker on this board and reading the thread on pathological altruism got me thinking about DD.

Daughter is nearly 2 and I tend to follow an Alfie Kohn “unconditional parenting” approach. I realise it sounds ridiculous learning how to parent from a book, but abusive parents, no role models etc.

Anyway, a lot of it is about teaching empathy. So instead of barking “share” at her when her and other children fight over toys, I’ll say “Can you see that Amy’s crying? I think she was enjoying that truck. What could we do to make her happy?” and DD is so kind that she’ll go and give the truck to Amy.

But I also worry that it’s teaching her to be a pushover and notice that it’s always her sharing, never other kids. I’ve also noticed that boys seem to definitely get a lot more acceptance and less discipline from their parents when they snatch her toy or barge her off the slide.

How do I teach her to be kind but not submissive?

I’ve got a few books suggested on the Mighty Girl website. Obviously her comprehension isn’t at the stage to fully engage with them but we’ll chat about female explorers and scientists. She has what I think is a fairly ungendered selection of toys and recently we’ve been watching programmes like “Catie’s Amazing Machines” together.

Has anyone here had any experience with this? Also suggestions for clubs, activities etc for her when she’s older? I'd love to take her to feminist talks etc when she’s older.

I did the same emotional intelligence/unconditional parenting style with my children, who are now older, but still children living at home. Neither of them are pushovers; quite the opposite. They will learn from you how to have the best chance of being treated equitably without being pushy themselves by copying you. I also found the book "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" helpful on the practical side.

I try to avoid praise, never called them clever or beautiful. I talk about actions and consequences - "You trained really hard, and you won that triathlon", rather than "Wow! You're so fast!" (trust me that it's warmer than it sounds when combined with a smile and a hug), or on the negative side "Your hit your sister, and that really hurt her".

I now have two young ladies who seem to be secure in themselves, and I have never heard either of them complain about the way that they look. They know that my love for them is not contingent on their beauty, cleverness or athletic performance.

I have my challenges with them, but trust me - being pushovers isn't one of them.

You are her biggest influence. How you are as a woman will influence how she thinks a woman ought to be.

So if you want her to grow up confident, able to hold her own, not become a domestic salve or put men first then you don’t.

When my dd was 4 I asked her what she wanted to be when she grew up and she told me I was silly because mummies don’t work. I realised she had no idea I used to have a good career before becoming a mum, so I decided to get a part time job and show her mums do work, and they don’t rely on daddies!

I am certainly working on showing my daughter that you don't have to, indeed shouldn't, capitulate to an angry man, that it's not her job to have to manage/soothe male anger, and that it's OK for her to be angry as well.

Definitely hobbies, I'm convinced peer groups outside school make a huge difference. Not just from observing my own girls but the most resilient kids I know in school all have a "something" that takes them out of school and family life where they can learn to negotiate with new people. Plus anything that takes practice - music, sport, etc - eventually means you learn to deal with a failure or knock back at some point.

Teach persistence and commitment and praise those, and as ScienceRoar says, talk about bodies in terms of what they can do rather than how they look (active rather than passive). I think you have to walk the walk, though - if you never stick at anything or are constantly fretting about your looks, you're not going to end up with a resilient kid.

I think one of the most important things is, if possible, to model a good, equal relationship.

Lots of good tips in this thread.
I'd add, not insisting that your DD is 'nice' - they don't have to smile if they don't want, bodily autonomy is really important - and you have to respect it too, choice - clothes/hair etc. I think teaching your daughter not to be a 'pleaser' is important. Yy to modelling strong behaviour and equal relationships.
I tell my DD she is beautiful (because she is) but I also praise her other qualities and tell her how much she is loved and valued. She has good self esteem and is happy with how she looks - I hope that lasts.

I think another way of looking at it is thinking about what made us strong or what didn't.
For me:
Made me strong:

• my brother always treated me like an equal. He was older, he was favoured by parents, he always had my back, we learnt to cycle together, we did everything together. Not once he imply I was "less able"
• my dad and brother took me to the woods every weekend
• scouts and lots of groups to make friends outside school
• my grandad who loved me exactly as I was
• my aunt, who is absolutely perfect in every way, learning more and more at age 75, hard working, loving, strong.

Not so strong:

• lack of attention from parents
• zero praise from parents
• very strict upbringing
• ignored a lot
• rarely told I was good, pretty, smart
• shouted at a lot

And I try to do more from column A raising my DC

Thank you all, this thread has been really useful. I can see where many of you are coming from in not making her responsible for other people’s happiness. I guess that was why it wasn’t sitting well with me - I felt as if by trying to teach her empathy, I was in fact teaching her to be subservient. I’ll try to keep it more simple and about turn-taking instead.

I realise I probably sound like a total idiot in my OP. It’s fucking hard trying to be a good parent when you haven’t got role models from your own childhood and have bugger all confidence. That’s why I really don’t want to pass this on to her.

I like the idea of having interests outside of school and the home too. I imagine that could help her to feel more self-assured in her abilities and have a wider friendship group.

Off to track down Jean Liedloff's The Continuum Concept

You really don't sound like an idiot, op.
I think a lot of people have experienced this thing of not having had the kind of parenting you would want to emulate so having to think about and look around for ways to do it differently.
And this openness to discussing it is exactly why you will do it better

Here we practice taking turns over sharing but we also have rules about no meaning no (early lessons in consent). This means that if they have toys they do not to want to share, that's fine. The flip side is if they want something someone else has and that person says no, we talk about how it's okay to say no. With visitors it's always easier to ask that any toys they don't want to share are put away first then come out again afterwards.

This is quite different to an approach that teaches sharing and has caused a few problems with others who expect a parent to intervene and get them the toy they want. If I do I intervene it's usually along the lines of asking whether we can take it in turns and if it's still no I explain to the other child that the toy is important to my DC and that they are welcome to play with something else.

You don't sound like an idiot at all, you sound brilliant!

It's counter-intuitive, but also hanging back. Letting her work it out for herself. Letting her fall and fail, literally and metaphorically. I don't think you can build a feminist without resilience.

It’s fucking hard trying to be a good parent when you haven’t got role models from your own childhood and have bugger all confidence.

Fixed that for you

FWIW I try to model assertiveness. We also have books like Little People Big Dreams, Emmeline Pankhurst and Ada Twist Scientist.

I also ask her what she thinks. At 7 this works. So she was recently in an altercation with a boy who was trying to get her to move. Because he wanted her spot. He kicked her a few times so she gave him a shove and didn't move. I was told all about this by the school. I asked her, "do you think I'm going to be angry about what you did?". She said, "no". Damn right. I asked, "what if you had kicked him first to get his spot?" "I'd never do that" "No DD, you wouldn't". Job done. We did talk about what else she could have done. But there's a place for kindness and there's a place for standing your ground.

I clearly didn't fix that

One of the most assertive women I managed had been brought up by parents who asked her opinion and listened to it.

On everything such as holidays/ what to have for dinner etc/ clothes - you name it. She said they had family conferences about decisions She expected to be listened to and heard but not necessarily agreed with. I learnt a lot from her even though I was her manager.

So I’d say it’s letting your daughter have a voice and opinion and not rubbishing or minimising it, but also not necessarily just rolling over.

I don't have daughters, only sons.

I tell them to work hard, that they need to be able to rely on themselves, support themselves and be accountable to themselves.

I look at where their strengths and weaknesses are, advise them re. building on both, without pointing out weaknesses explicitly.

I give them a hard time (sometimes) when they loll about. I am admittedly a bit puritan about laziness and lack of effort.

I tell them that where their many talents lie and that they will find their way in life, but that dedication and hard work, rather than pure talent, is the recipe for success.

I laugh at their jokes. I talk to them. I listen. I tell that they are handsome, funny and witty. I also tell them that when they are being a pain in the arse. I tell them that they are loved. I tell them when I am wrong. They know I am not perfect and I don't pretend to be.

Now they are teenagers, we talk politics, including feminism. I think you have to expect disagreement but welcome further debate. Sometimes I can't be arsed and say so. One son had been 'influenced' by MRA types for a bit. That took some time but he now agrees with "mum's type of feminism" now.

I would hope that I would do exactly the same for the daughters I never had.

I think the people pleasing / be kind thing is probably the most damaging thing for a young woman/girl. So try very hard to think how you would treat a boy and try to do the same.

I did have many discussion re sex education with my eldest sons and that means that the conversion is still open. My youngest son is more embarassed, probably because the older brothers were talking to him about it. They get there. But obviously I have to be sex specific sometimes. Actually, at junior school my eldest wanted to know what the girls were being taught, so it was me who told him about periods. His reaction on learning was similar to what mine had been.

So talking a lot, I think, is the way.

I do tell DD she is beautiful, not as often as I tell her she was brave or kind or clever or strong or funny, but I think as a mixed race girl she will struggle when she realises how few people in the media look like her, it does have an effect on self esteem and while I would prefer she didn't really care about how she looked that is inevitable in this society. Her hair seems to be gaining more Afro texture as it grows and I believe it is incredibly important that she loves her natural hair and doesn't feel the need to chemically treat it to fit in. I think she will need to feel beautiful in a world that will keep telling her she isn't, while promoting beauty as the most important thing in a woman. It's hard to counteract that message as a parent

DP has been the main SAHP for almost a year and she has seen us modelling an equal relationship at home, I think that is incredibly important as I didn't have that as a child. DP was raised solely by his late mother and I am so thankful to her for bringing him up with feminist principles which survived an adolescence spent in an misogynistic boys school atmosphere.

We've avoided the old Disney princess films, but she has watched the Princess and the Frog because that actually has a positive message about working hard for your dreams, and can help us start the conversation about race and class when she is older. Maui was also a hit and another strong female lead.

Reads like a trick question- be a strong woman surely?

I would say combate your own misogyny. It will be there even if you think it’s not, we all have it socialised in to us, but challenge that. (Subservient little woman comment above reaks of my mother’s own misogyny).

I’ve read the book you mean, I had very abusive childhood also so read a lot from nvc/up etc but found I went with instinct more than anything. That said as my kids turned out to have asc amoung other things I’m glad I went with avoiding ‘praise praise praise’ type approaches and aimed to describe my emotions -I’m so proud of you, I’m having such a great time playing with you, thank you for the fun day etc or described theirs -I can see you are angry/upset/anxious etc -it’s helped a lot with their emotional literacy & communication skills despite several disabilities. I did a lot of descriptive stuff also -wow you did it, you climbed the whole way etc. It holds more meaning for my kids than transitional praise, so I get looking at these approaches. I found growing up in trust: parenting without reward or punishment a better option for that age though, more practical and relatable read, and playful parenting is very helpful also- although it doesn’t directly relate to your question I would imagine it would be easy to taylor many of the role play approaches to it, as well as useful for problem solving when you hit preschool years and sadly girls suddenly get stampeded by boys who already seem more entitled.

Imho I don’t think not telling them they are beautiful is a perfect answer. My mother did this, and all that happened is I became desperate for others to tell me it while convinced I was ugly so became make up and clothes obsessed as a teen. I think it’s great for girls to enjoy their beauty, but I guess the thing is to help them enjoy it for themselves, not because the live up to the male fantasy that’s pushed on us. I don’t have the answer for that but I don’t think never telling girls how beautiful they are is it.

I’d also disagree with keeping them away from Disney’s films. Again this was me, no Disney’s films, no barbie dolls, no pink clothes ever & no dolly & buggy like the other girls in my class. I felt excluded from something I felt I wasn’t good enough for as well as getting the message that girly was a bad bad thing (which is just another form of misogyny). I was also give plenty of ‘boys toys’ so learned that being like a boy was a good thing, and so I would never be good enough. The same way tomboy is cool as it’s to do with being like a boy yet girl is an insult. Not getting to churn through the girly barbie pink stage and discard it meant it was more attractive to me and that I hit it later, and being into female gender stereotypes as a developing preteen is not healthy at all, wanting nothing but skirts and pretty hair and nails and sexy bras at the point I was most vulnerable is not great at all.

I think imho that it’s important to not deny all the negative sex role stereotypes and the influences that push them there are within our society. Doing so meant I never got the opportunity to examin (with adult help) all the confused mixed messages they set off for me. I think it’s more important to being open to listen to girls concerns about why girls should like pink or why the prince always saves the princess, or to initiate conversation age appropriately about babie and her waiste size. If it’s not hidden or shunned it can be discussed and examined and most importantly their feelings and worries can be something they can bring to you, not hide away and bottle up.

I do think it’s hugely important to counter this with a variety of other examples of how to be a girl, from as many real life ones as possible to Tracy beaker or the paper bag princess or Patti Smith or whatever you find that works. The great thing about this is you need to get out there and look, which actually makes life more interesting.

I’d also say get her into horse riding, over and above every other activity or sport, it’s the only one where she won’t drop out when she hits puberty and has to deal with her changing body, where she will get to feel how powerful her body is as she controls a huge strong horse with it, where she can compete on equal footing to boys sports wise as it’s the skill of communicating with the horse that matters not physical strength and where it’s totally normal to be conferred in muck and have stinky sweaty hat hair all day to counter the teenage push to obsess over appearance. Teaches a lot of self awareness and assertiveness also as horses pick up on everything. I know price can put people off but really it’s not something that has to be expensive, many yards offer cheap group lessons (£12 per half hr where I am) membership to pony club without the need to own one, work for ride opportunities, winter loan/shares, holiday camps cheaper than child care etc. There are a lot of practical skills involved that are great for girls especially to learn also.

Oh and teach her to trust her gut instincts. If she doesn’t like a kid she doesn’t have to, if she distrusts someone she’s allowed to have barriers. She doesn’t have to be friends with everyone or to forgive someone who hurts her.

This is especially important for me with my kids. They are hugely anxious and hold grudges against kids for seemingly none existent things, yet I work hard not to talk them out of these grudges as a few times when school have it turns out my girls were eight & the kid they appear irrationally scared of was targeting them and they didn’t need to learn to shut up and move over and play nice when they knew deep down there was reason to be scared.

Some things we did/do (dd is 13)

Limited pink/princess crap we were those annoying parents. We once compromised on pink converse shoes when she was a flower girl.

Lots of intentional role modeling, I choose books very carefully.

Showing her that we have her back. My dd was painfully shy until about age 6. I never pushed her or forced her to be nice - her boundaries should be respected (even if it was embarrassing to me sometimes!)

Giving her 3 little brothers lol. Like heck will they be stronger/smarter/more capable than her at anything - competitive siblings! My MIL told her once that her brothers were going to be bigger & stronger one day (true) and she was just like 'oh haaaaaill no!'

One of the most extreme things we chose was to homeschool.

Oh & we do a no swiping rule. I never understood the insistence on sharing. Each have their own special things that are theirs that no one else touches, the other less important stuff they negotiate. Sharing is only a kind thing if volunteered and not forced.

I actively praise dd (nearly 5) for standing up for herself. But equally I will be firm with her if she has acted unfairly towards someone else. I think stories are so powerful for little ones. I've never read her any books with princesses being saved etc. I also change the sex of characters in books all the time. There is so rarely a girl character in a children's book who doesn't have the personality 'girl'. This is getting more challenging now she can read! Although she is now horrified that all of the animals in dear Zoo are boys. So we can start talking about how silly that is.

I've never told her she's beautiful. I will say she looks super smart if I like her outfit.

Who knows if it's going to work but she's very confident now. I just hope it lasts.

I recommend looking up RIE and Janet Lansbury OP. I don't agree with all of it but it's an interesting approach to parenting which I think Foster's self confidence.

Clear expectations and known rules until they develop self discipline.
Teaching empathy and the impact their behaviour has on others. Learning to be kind to themselves and others.
High achievement.
I wouldn’t agree with constant praise - it creates an impossible pedestal from which they will fall. They need to understand they get things wrong. They need to know they can make mistakes and survive.
Not jumping in to solve every problem for them and not promoting the myth of perpetual happiness. Children need to learn they can cope and overcome adversity.
Allowing risk taking and avoiding the harm that is a cotton wool lifestyle.

The thing about barking 'Share!' at toddlers is that they learn that's what's expected of them. To share. They don't have to at home, but do in public. This is basic socialisation. Making a massive song and dance about 'Ooooh what can we do to make Amyhappy, let's give her the truck' is confusing, as why is your daughter having to make Amy happy?!? At a playgroup everyone has a turn, it's about fairness and social expectations.

I wonder if you are practicing 'Gentle Parenting'. CHildren need to learn the rules and expectations in society, and being told off for wrongdoing is not harmful, as long as it's not abusive. The 'gently parented' children I know are without exception awful, feral brats whom their peers dislike.

Teach your daughter that she's entitled to take up as much space as anyone else, and she's entitled to her turn, whilst not taking from others

Interesting thread I will read tomorrow