Rod Liddle: I’m identifying as a young, black, trans chihuahua, and the truth can go whistle

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/i-m-identifying-as-a-young-black-trans-chihuahua-and-the-truth-can-go-whistle-tq550nx5f

This piece seems to have sent our favourite Doctor into an apoplectic rage yet again so I assume it is worth reading.

And yes re PT, I think he’s right on Irish cake bakers. Wrong on child sex. Wrong on transgenderism.

See I can distinguish between different ideas and make up my own mind based on my own thoughts not tribalism.

For all I know Owen Jones may have been right about some stuff too once upon a time. And I believe Shon Faye is good at parallel parking and has a nice singing voice

The same goes for everyone jez, even bloody Fred west was probably nice to his mum and bought her flowers on her birthday! People aren't evil, they aren't innate sinners, that's all simplistic religious-style crap. Sometimes the negative will massively outweigh the positive, but that doesn't automatically obliterate the positive, should it exist.

I'm not informed enough on the Peter Tatchell situation (bloody real life getting in the way) to give you my opinion on where on the +ive/-ive scale he sits, but I'm fairly sure I can guess he isn't innately evil.

Should read:
"where on the +ive/-ive scale he sits - and what his sensible opinions are versus his batshit ones"

So, basically, we have to agree with people on either everything or nothing? I guess we’ll all be in our own individual echo chambers talking to no one then.

I think stretched ear lobes can look good. I'm fairly sure that makes me Dalit on mumsnet.

I think when a journalist has made his position clear that he could not give a toss about women or children, it is a strange decision to share his work and praise him on a feminist forum.

But each to their own.

By the 'you don't have to agree with everything...' reasoning on display here I'm assuming Hitler (no fan of trans people) qualifies for the 'even a broken clock...' treatment.

I think when a journalist has made his position clear that he could not give a toss about women or children, it is a strange decision to share his work and praise him on a feminist forum

But again, you are saying that unless we agree with everything he says / thinks / does we should disagree with everything he says / thinks / does.

Outside of the TRA bubble (which I will admit is extremely well policed) the world just does not work like that. Writing (for example) is judged on its own merit, it doesn't require a detailed analysis of the author and their life. I'd someone says something that is good / right / worthwhile that stands on its own.

I believe Hitler liked dogs. I love dogs. Ergo, I am literally Hitler. #TRAlogic

If Rod Liddle says that the transgender ideology is a load of bollocks, should I start supporting transgender ideology in protest of him as an individual?

If we are waiting for morally pure men to stick up for women, we'll be waiting a long time. And we've already waited a long time. A few notable exceptions of course.

The men who define themselves as morally pure are the ones who call women who want to discuss their rights "bigots". The men who claim to be decent are more than happy to silence, threaten and bully women for not falling behind the line that men insist they have the right to draw for women.

We need to get the message out to the public (who are still largely ignorant about this issue).

Doesn't matter who sends the message.

Anything that shines a light on this is good.

We're never going to win this without the contribution of journalists in mainstream media.

By the 'you don't have to agree with everything...' reasoning on display here I'm assuming Hitler (no fan of trans people) qualifies for the 'even a broken clock...' treatment

Of course Hitler was a human, as we all are. He couldn't have become what he did without the support of many many others. He did horrific things, but that is not all he was, and he was not alone in what he did.

This is quite an interesting read

www.bbc.com/timelines/zsmm6sg

I guess with the number of known racists etc in your movement you'd want to be quite forgiving of certain views.

Hitler's views on facebooks 72 genders were well documented, I remember that section at the Nuremberg rally in 1936 where he said "es gibt nur zwei Geschlechter. Man kann nur Mann oder Frau sein"

I thought by mentioning Fred west I'd make it clear enough, but can't have a conversation on the Internet without someone bringing up Hitler... 🙄

Anything that shines a light on this is good.

No it's not. Not when the author is selling women and children down the river.

There are plenty of gender critical journalists out there who are not disgusting misogynists .

I love the idea of being "transchihuahua".

I guess with the number of known racists etc in your movement you'd want to be quite forgiving of certain views.

I guess you could say the same about all of the homophobes and misogynists in the "TRA movement".

Again, this is massively overly simplistic thinking. Ideas stand or fall on their own merit and analyses, not who agrees or disagrees with them.

And there also isn't a "movement". There is a large group of women with legitimate concerns who agree wholeheartedly on some things, and disagree vociferously on others, and that is how it should be. Listening to viewpoints other than our own allows us to refine our own viewpoints.

It's unfortunate that RL has written some terrible shit prior to this which might mean that people skip reading his articles altogether. However, if anyone sat on the trans fence does get to read it I'm pretty sure it'll help them see the insanity of the trans demands. We all live in glass houses but it doesn't mean we can't effect positive change sometimes.

Interesting debate. My enemies enemy is my friend etc.

To be honest I think the TRAs need to own where their batshittery has led.

Mn is one of the few places where it still seems to be possible to think critically about an idea on its own merits. The strategy where you pick a team and then agree uncritically with whatever your team members come out with while equally uncritically rubbishing everything said by your opponents leads to some deeply stupid thinking

TallulahWaitingInTheRain that's strange, because I've noticed that often the excellent and valid opinions of posters who are not gender critical are rubbished and dismissed on here. And anybody who is gender critical, no matter how odious (Rod Liddle, Katie Hopkins, Posie Parker) are fawned over.

I guess you could say the same about all of the homophobes and misogynists in the "TRA movement".

And also those TRAs who post about 'black women, disabled women, poor women, trans women' etc and seem to assume that all GC women are able-bodied, white and well off?

Jezebelz

You said this about RL - "praise him on a feminist forum."

Can you please quote the people who "praise him" you are reading here? I've read people saying they agree with some of his comments in the article but I have not see anyone "praise him" , so can you please show me that?

Also you said "fawned over" - can you please quote the words you would classify as "fawned over".

Thanks

Jez, what specifically in the article do you disagree with?

Maybe start there.