Pub trouble.

[tierraJ]

Ive started to go to my gym (which is in a hotel) in the late afternoon recently.
After the gym I like to go to the hotel bar to get an ice cold Diet Coke & maybe some food before I walk home.

It's actually a 'sports bar' with widescreens playing football etc so there's often lots of men around who are generally more interested in the tv than in anything else.

I did feel comfortable sitting in the bar on my own but my younger sister has told me off.

Apparently my sisters male friends ( mainly Forces) say that being a woman in a pub in the evening on your own is a bad thing as men think you are a slut or an escort who is only after picking up a man.
And I should sit in the hotel lobby with my drink instead.

Considering I wear a gym hoody with trainers I hardly look like I'm on the pull but that's irrelevant to men it seems.

My argument is that a) it's 2018 not 1950 and b) I pay a lot for my gym membership so I will sit where I like!

I have to admit I don't know any other women who would drink (even cola) in a pub alone in the evening, and I know lots of women. So maybe my sister is right??

I posted this in the Feminism section as these attitudes have really made me feel angry & I want to know what other feminists think.

I was just shocked to learn that these attitudes still exist among men (I have no male friends or partner & work in a female environment so I've lost touch with how men think these days).

There's a serious problem with the culture in the Forces, especially in their social media groups.

They are idiots. Of course you can eat and drink alone if you want. Comments like that would make me do it more regularly tbh.

Sounds as though it's OP's sister and her friends who create the problem, and not these blameless men watching their football on the telly! Perhaps there are places where it's predictable that men will harass women, but this hotel bar doesn't seem to be one of them.

You are justifying your behaviour way too much in your post imho. You don’t need to do this here, or to anyone else.

Do what you want and stage an intervention to get your sister away from these male chauvinist pigs.

FFS. This is just one more example of men claiming ownership of public space. The "they'll / we'll think you're a slut" thing is both intimidating and manipulative because it combines a threat of sexual harassment with preemptive victim-blaming. Fuck that's annoying.

I've had a drink in a pub without an escort on many occasions. And the more we do it the less this misogynistic horseshit stands up to scrutiny.

Well no ones treated you like a escort (have they?) so the bigger question is how to get your sister friends who don’t hate women!

Sure, I sit in pubs alone in occasion. I've occasionally felt uncomfortable (out of place and drawing attention) in pubs full of lots of male locals of a certain age, but otherwise no issues. It's absolutely never occurred to me that people would think I'm a slut or an escort! Seems bizarre. Though I do sometimes worry that people must think I'm a loner with no friends!

When I sit there I feel invisible to be honest because I'm in really casual clothes & the men in the bar are too busy watching football or chatting to notice me.

I think my sisters friends may be the problem, I'm meeting some of them soon which should be interesting hmm..

I've never had hassle from any of the men in this pub or any other pub when I've been in my own.

I think I will continue going for my after gym drink.

Btw I do have friends & socialise a lot too, not a sad loner all the time!

my sisters male friends ( mainly Forces) say that being a woman in a pub in the evening on your own is a bad thing as men think you are a slut or an escort

Is forces a misspelling of 'Saudi Arabian'? I can't think of any other explanation for such an odd set of views. My elderly, highly conservative, mother loves to be judgey about other women and she'd snort in derision at this.

I have to admit I don't know any other women who would drink (even cola) in a pub alone in the evening, and I know lots of women.

I honestly don't know any (non-muslim) women who wouldn't.

In the 1960s women were not allowed to sit in 'Milk Bars' or pubs on their own in the evening because they were assumed to be waiting for customers. That's over half a century ago! I'm staggered that this view still prevails in some quarters. So good on you for sitting where you want to sit, and wearing what you want to wear. Keep on doing it, in fact, please do it more. And maybe tell your sister that the blokes she hangs out with are sexist half-wits.

Your sister's friends are absolutely the problem.

Her friends obviously spend a lot of time in pubs where some of the women actually are escorts, so they think the whole world is like that. They have admitted that's what they think when they see a lone woman. That's their issue. I really don't think most men would think that. She needs better friends!

Are you sure you want to meet them?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain
FFS. This is just one more example of men claiming ownership of public space. The "they'll / we'll think you're a slut" thing is both intimidating and manipulative because it combines a threat of sexual harassment with preemptive victim-blaming. Fuck that's annoying.

I've had a drink in a pub without an escort on many occasions. And the more we do it the less this misogynistic horseshit stands up to scrutiny

None of the men in the pub have behaved that way.

That's their issue. I really don't think most men would think that. She needs better friends!

Yes indeed.

None of the men in the pub have behaved that way

Agreed. I was describing the sister's friends

As a male who's spent far too much time in random pubs, and on business regularly go to the hotel bar, it would never cross my mind to think of a lone woman as either of those two things the OP mentions.

In a hotel bar I wouldn't consider a lone woman remotely unusual either. Lots of people both male and female want to sit down alone in a hotel bar whilst they browse stuff on their phone / catch-up on emails or just daydream.

I often eat or drink alone, I love doing it. Sadly I don't do it as much as I'd like now kids have come along.

What you described sounds more like a trendy bar than a proper pub. Especially if it's in a hotel.

Your sisters friends sound like the the type I would readily avoid.

Funny enough, the one time I ever felt truly threatened in a pub was by someone on leave from the army who threatened to punch me because time had been called before he walked in, already wasted, and I refused to serve him.

Who gives a fuck what your sister’s horrible misogynist mates think? 🤮

As an ex-forces woman I can attest that many of the guys I used to work with would see a lone woman as a potential pulling opportunity if they're out-out (as Mickey Flanagan described it) . However, this is not just limited to men in the forces, it's most single men if they're out-out.

If they're just out (watching sport, having a drink after the gym, in the pub with pals on a normal night etc) they aren't usually sharking at all, they're just minding their own business like everyone else.

I would just carry on doing what you're doing & take no notice of what your sister said.

I think it differs greatly where you are. I know someone who was sitting reading a book in a pub in London by herself and a bartender came up to her and asked on another customer's behalf if she was a prostitute.

I learnt the hard way about not entering a lot of pubs in a Northern town a few years back that being female and out of the house is seen as an invitation and having a pint is almost provocative.

But in certain places it is lovely to have a pint and a read or catch up with some work by yourself. I'd judge places you don't get hassle are larger, quieter ones that sell food. If you haven't had hassle there OP then you are fine.

Agreed. I was describing the sister's friends

But rather than focus on the actual situation described where the OP is quietly enjoying a drink in a bar where men are not causing any problem at all, you post a rant based on what the OP's sister says her friends say.

I regularly go to a pub on my own in the afternoon for food and a coke. It is full of much older men and I do get a few stares but I don’t care. Your sister is being a twonk.

Sit wherever you want. She is the one with the problem.