Pub trouble.

[tierraJ]

Ive started to go to my gym (which is in a hotel) in the late afternoon recently.
After the gym I like to go to the hotel bar to get an ice cold Diet Coke & maybe some food before I walk home.

It's actually a 'sports bar' with widescreens playing football etc so there's often lots of men around who are generally more interested in the tv than in anything else.

I did feel comfortable sitting in the bar on my own but my younger sister has told me off.

Apparently my sisters male friends ( mainly Forces) say that being a woman in a pub in the evening on your own is a bad thing as men think you are a slut or an escort who is only after picking up a man.
And I should sit in the hotel lobby with my drink instead.

Considering I wear a gym hoody with trainers I hardly look like I'm on the pull but that's irrelevant to men it seems.

My argument is that a) it's 2018 not 1950 and b) I pay a lot for my gym membership so I will sit where I like!

I have to admit I don't know any other women who would drink (even cola) in a pub alone in the evening, and I know lots of women. So maybe my sister is right??

I posted this in the Feminism section as these attitudes have really made me feel angry & I want to know what other feminists think.

I was just shocked to learn that these attitudes still exist among men (I have no male friends or partner & work in a female environment so I've lost touch with how men think these days).

The OP asked whether the viewpoint attributed to the sister's friends was justified. I think that viewpoint was both unjustified and representative of the viewpoints of a minority of men who police women's presence and behaviour in public places including streets, public transport and pubs.

Sounds as though it's OP's sister and her friends who create the problem, and not these blameless men watching their football on the telly!

Most probably.

FFS. This is just one more example of men claiming ownership of public space.

No it's not. It's another example of a woman making rather spurious claims about 'what men think'.

I go to the pub on my own.

And I drink pints of ale while I'm doing it.

No one has ever said anything.

This is a mute discussion. You have empirically proven that you can sit in this pub without being harassed, and harassment would be the only reason to avoid the pub (even though that would also beg the question, why it should not be the harrassers who need to leave). You have no control over what anyone thinks, someone in that pub might think you are Madonna or still alive Elvis in disguise AND WHO CARES?

I’ve sat in pubs on my own for nearly 5 decades now with no real problems. Yes a few times someone has tried it on but just a normal pick up attempt, no one has ever to my knowledge thought I was a prostitute.

But op hasn't directly heard any new say anything and they are still slated classic.
This has all come from her female relative.

OP, your sister and their friends have the problem. Not you. You have the right to sit and drink your Diet Coke where you like.

In a hotel bar though, in gym gear? Lots of people are going to be staying in the hotel, lots of them alone, lots of them might want a drink.

Without being snobbish - how expensive is the hotel? Are hordes of men likely to be going into that bar on the pull (I'm guessing not, since you've not experienced it so far)? Hotel bars in my experience are over-priced, so it wouldn't be my first choice for a night out if I were in that frame of mind.

In any case, you have every right to be there, you've not experienced any issues ever, and no, I don't think it's an attitude most people have at all. Even men, so crack on with sitting wherever the hell you like in a public place!

Apparently my sisters male friends ( mainly Forces) say that being a woman in a pub in the evening on your own is a bad thing as men think you are a slut or an escort who is only after picking up a man.
And I should sit in the hotel lobby with my drink instead

I believe this because I've heard it in many different forms before - and not just from men in the forces.

I once went for dinner with a colleague (male) on a purely platonic basis - he had a bit more to drink than anticipated and as he had parked his car at mine I invited him in for coffee - and he hit on me. Luckily he left when I asked him to, but the next day I told friends (male and female) the story and was told by most (both sexes) that 'come back to my place for a coffee' means 'I agree to fuck'.

I was once meeting (senior female) project partners (I thought) in a pub. They were very late. It turns out they were outside waiting for me because they did not expect me to enter a pub alone. They were appalled that I was sitting there with a beer. Ironically, the project was concerned with enhancing 'gender equity' in a workplace.

And I can't count the number of times I have been sitting in pubs alone (I sometimes travel for work and I used to travel for work quite frequently .. and hey I like beer) and I have been hit on by men. I always tell them to fuck off (usually politely), but the attitude is there that since I am drinking alone then I must be 'fair game'. Oddly, friends have told me I am 'mean' for not talking to these men in the past.

To me this all just underscores what a PP said about men owning public places and women having to carefully negotiate their way around them.

OP - I suggest you educate your sister and if you get any stick from her forces friends complain to their unit and ask that there be PD in the respectful and equal treatment of women given.

I once went for dinner with a colleague (male) on a purely platonic basis - he had a bit more to drink than anticipated and as he had parked his car at mine I invited him in for coffee - and he hit on me. Luckily he left when I asked him to, but the next day I told friends (male and female) the story and was told by most (both sexes) that 'come back to my place for a coffee' means 'I agree to fuck'.

I learnt that many years ago when my boss gave me a lift home and I invited him in for coffee to thank him...

Nowadays, if I have cause to invite a man in, I invite them in for tea and tell them that I am not inviting them in for coffee because I know what that means. Just so there is no doubt

I met my now DH in a bar when I was alone waiting on friends to arrive. When did they change the rules that talking to people in bars is bad. Are you only allowed to use Internet dating and pre approve any approach now?
Who cares if someone approaches you if you tell them your not interested it's only a problem if they don't go away.

Tallulah. I think your points are spot on for a minority of men like you say. Most of us have experienced some kind of harassment in the street or in bars etc which is partly due to how some men exercise ownership of public space, and think it's ok to comment on etc women passing through. Some of the campaigning against street harassment has focused on this. It holds up for pubs and bars too. The comments by the male friends contribute to this in a small way. Obvs op should still ignore them!

Which century does your sister live in? I'm fairly old now but have enjoyed a drink on my own since I was legally allowed to drink, so for a long time. Being alone in a pub with a book or a newspaper is one of life's joys. Have never had a problem, occasionally some random tried to talk to me but they are ok when told that reading and solitude was the object.

Enjoy your drink.

@UpstartCrow I couldn't agree more with the forces social media etc.

@tierraJ just enjoy your drink.

Well I'm at the gym & I will go in the bar afterwards as usual I've decided.

However it will be about 330 pm as I only take just over an hour in the gym & not in the evening which is apparently when a lone woman in a pub shouldn't be in the pub lol.

The only men I know are the drs & physios & porters at work. I may ask their opinions on this subject just out of interest. In fact some of them go to this pub as it's opposite my workplace.

I will be meeting my sisters friends on her birthday soon, could be interesting.

My view really is that I pay a lot for my membership as I said in my OP so I don't see why I can't take advantage of the full facilities here!

Some pubs further out in the country I would definitely not go into on my own but this pub seems like a friendly place, the bar staff & regulars seem nice so it feels safe.

OP, now you make it sound like those sketchy pubs out in the country make women disappear on a regular basis or something...Like one of these horror movies with those axe grinding toothless natives...

If I'm out on my own and it's lunch time I usually go to a pub for lunch. Sometimes if I'm in town I'll pop in to the pub before coming home because I like real ale and we go to the pub less than we used to. I think if I sat there and knocked back several pints on my own I might look odd but I don't think twice about the half or full pint I usually have

I met my now DH in a bar when I was alone waiting on friends to arrive. When did they change the rules that talking to people in bars is bad. Are you only allowed to use Internet dating and pre approve any approach now?
Who cares if someone approaches you if you tell them your not interested it's only a problem if they don't go away.

It's the lack of being able to read the social "fuck off" signs (sitting at a table away from the bar, reading a book, not making eye contact with you etc) that's the problem. If you just want to go for a quiet drink you should be able to do so without having to field questions from random blokes.

So much angst!

Women are allowed to go into pubs on their own you know.

I can't see what the issue is to be honest.

This thing about lone women in pubs being prostitutes is news to me.
Do the landlords know this? I wouldn't have thought they'd take kindly to it.
Sounds like wishful thinking on the part of these men twats.

I sometimes stay in a hotel for work and yes I will absolutely have a drink (even sometimes - shock horror - alcohol) in the hotel bar and order my meal there on my own.
I tend not to sit at the bar because I'd rather work on my laptop/read my book/my phone than chat to the bartender (I wouldn't even consider an annoying fellow customer talking to me TBH) but also it's easier to eat a meal at a regular table rather than dangling your legs off a bar stool.