Is it time to admit that no one else separates sex & gender?

[CrazyToast]

Everywhere I see sex and gender conflated, on surveys, official forms, in day to day use. GC feminists and some academics seem to be the only ones who separate them. Is it time to admit the words have different uses than how we use them? And if this is the case, how should we move forward?

People who conflate the two are trying their hardest to appear to being polite, or are idiots. It needs to be resisted and hard

Rather than blurring the words into one, it would be better to speak up and make the difference known.

It's not the way to move forward Sex is medically important.

If I see 'gender' on a form I cross it out and put 'sex'.

Yes I cross out 'gender' and write sex.
On online forms I choose 'other' and write 'my sex is female' if they only provide gender options.

Until a woman who identifies as a man impregnates a man who thinks he is a woman, no.

If people can change gender then we need to keep the word sex too. People cannot change sex.

yes, how would you move away from sex and gender being different?

how would you talk about the sexed difference between male and female bodies?

I've yet to see any compelling evidence regarding innate gender, so regard it as a frankly questionable concept.

I think quite a few people still feel awkward about saying the s-e-x word and so are more inclined to use "gender", even when they actually mean sex...

In my experience people are more than happy to be polite and address people as their chosen gender identity or expression but still believe in basic biology Most people accept biology (how many heterosexual men would want to have sex with a penis owner and fondle a pair of balls?)

I saw something shared on Facebook and it's a photo of a scan picture saying 'in years to come there won't be a sex scan because you'll need to wait until they're 8 to find out if they identify as a boy, girl or frying pan'.

The issue is that many people who are more than happy to support trans rights don't realise that misogynist TRA agenda is different from the normal trans inclusion/rights of old.

I've seen people literally say that the word gender is a common usage synonym for sex. They're not wrong, I guess!

Yeah, a lot of people haven't thought about there being any difference between sex and gender at all.

The people I've come across generally reference the fact that gender is used on forms. And the ones who are not genderists/queer theoryists often follow it up with 'there are only 2 genders'

They have to be kept separate, conceptually. It's the only thing that makes sense, even for understanding the very existence of trans people. If they're not separate, then how would trans people exist? What are people transitioning from/to? What is reproductive sex? How are babies made?
...I just wish the rest of the world would catch up.

I think sometimes, ‘sex’ can seem a very hard word to use, and gender softer, but I don’t know if I just a matter of getting used to the word.

E.g. we say gender pay gap, not sex pay gap. Which seems ‘right’.
We should say sex inequality not gender inequality.
Sex discrimination sounds correct.

It’s like being asked ‘how are you?’ And answering ‘i’m Good’ ten years ago instead of ‘i’m Well’ sounded wrong, but now it doesn’t sound wrong....but I still insist on saying i’m Very well.

Many people assume sex and gender mean the same thing.

That’s because gender has been used as a euphemism for sex, not because the general public think sex is a ‘social construct.’

Nobody in their right mind actually believes people can change their sex.

It's really annoying when the online form doesn;t let you put the 'other...' option.

I used the NHS BMI calculator yesterday (yes, I'm within the range thanks for asking) and it offers 'gender at birth male or female' and you have to indicate one or the other.

Is it time to admit that no one else separates sex & gender?

This tells half the story. In terms of the use of language, they are mixed up by many people. In terms of practicalities, people often distinguish between the two very clearly indeed. When a woman is looking to find a partner to have kids with, does she choose a man or a masculine person (sex not important)? When the kids are growing up do parents worry about mixing (in intimate spaces) feminine people with masculine people or about mixing girls with boys?

Just about everyone separates sex and gender in some sense despite the language they use.

Conflating them has got us to the point where a male on remand for double rape is housed in a women's prison.

Words matter and the disappearance of the word 'sex', and the conflating of sex with gender is having real world consequences.

I agree with others that we need to fight to return to the common use of the word sex. Women will lose (and are losing) sex based rights if society stops talking about sex.

People do use gender as a euphemism for sex. Which was fine before the advent of identity politics and the concept of a 'gender identity' which could be different from sex.
Gender as a euphemism for sex is no longer appropriate, it's simply not compatible with Google's 76 genders or however many it is, with 'non binary', with 'gender fluid' etc. The fact that back in the real world people are still using gender to mean sex - as is clear when the choices are 'female' and 'male' is indicating of the reality that the vast majority still believe in biology.

I think I’ve been guilty in the past of using “gender” in place of “sex” (in fact until recently I didn’t really appreciate the difference). That was partly because no-on wants to say “sex” in an office if they can avoid it (I’m not a teenager, honest!).

I’ve started to become more precise in my language, this week using the term sex at work when it is the right term.

They used to be used interchangeably. This is now being exploited through the use of 'gender' as a Trojan horse to eradicate any legal definition of sex. If we look round and find we can no longer legally define sex, that is the end of women's sex-based protections.

We must resist this fiercely. And if others don't understand the difference between the terms, then perhaps we should educate them

Most people think they mean the same thing. Most people think that 'gender' is a polite euphemism for s-e-x. They are wrong.

And yet they are also right. Usage has changed the accepted meaning of the word 'gender'. (Just like, for example, 'prove' originally meant 'test', whereas now it means 'show to be true'.)

'Gender' referred originally only to grammatical gender. It had nothing to do with sex. Using it to refer to the social construct of sex-specific stereotypes is relatively new, less than 50y, and not commonly known.

Certainly the language being used in this debate must be clear, and understood by all.

No one gets the difference between weight and mass right, but if Scientists stopped caring the world would grind to a halt.

I think it's important to understand that most people use the original definition of gender (as a synonym for sex) and that's ok- that's a perfectly valid use of the word. It's important to be clear about the distinction where it matters.

I don't give a crap about a form asking about gender, because it means legal gender, which is a thing (and almost always the same as sex). I really mind a form using gender and having more than two options, because that implies that gender identities are objectively real.

I have begged feminists many times to stop using the word gender when referring to stereotypes, and instead, just say stereotypes. Don't use gender at all.

You are completely under-estimating the social contagion aspect of word usage, and how many lurkers (in other mainstream forums) notice your use of the correct word and their subsequent adoption of the correct word.

When other people use the word gender incorrectly, just say casually and calmly, "oh you mean stereotypes".

I only knew the difference between sex and gender because it was explained to me by a feminist teacher at school. But now things are getting more complicated. Kids are being taught that there is:

Biological sex
Gender identity
Gender expression
Sexual orientation.

So someone who's biologically male and attracted to women, and who dresses and behaves like a bloke could still claim to have a 'female identity' and demand to be referred to as 'she'.

It gets even more confusing when TRAs claim sexual orientation is actually gender orientation (or you're a bigot), and biological sex is a social construct.

I think it's more accurate to say that everyone knows the difference (yes, even the trans "lesbians" who simultaneously parrot TWAW, while claiming that they personally couldn't possibly have sex with another individual in possession of a lady penis because that would be triggering). Everyone in the whole damn world knows the difference between sex -the biology of reproduction - and gender in the sense of "performing" femininity.

What we're seeing here is merely an illusion, a concerted attack on the language we need to express the distinction that everyone in their heart of hearts knows. It's a two pronged attack, coming in the first instance from a kind of Victorian prudishness about saying the word "sex", which is then weaponised by people launching a political attack on the ability of people to state clearly a distinction they know to be true.