Male volunteer - Guides & Rainbows - arrested on suspicion of grooming

[Oldstyle]

Not clear if this person is trans or simply male but I thought that men who identify as men were not allowed to volunteer with these 'female-only' groups? Worrying either way.
www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/17207657.north-kent-girlguiding-volunteer-arrested-on-suspicion-of-grooming/?ref=twtrec

Men can't be unit leaders, but they are allowed to volunteer with Girl Guides. I don't think there's any reason to think from that newspaper article that this volunteer was trans.

but I thought men would not go to any effort to volunteer to help with children's activities so they could abuse children? is that not we are being told?

"To be absolutely clear, safeguarding is at the heart of everything we do at Girlguiding and we treat all disclosures, concerns and allegations very seriously."

ORLY

Part of me wants this bloke to suddenly decide to identify as a woman and watch the fallout from GG.

Maybe I'm just old and cynical, but I'm always suspicious of any man who volunteers to be around groups of young girls.

We have an occasional male helper with our Guide group, usually when we are away from our base (helps with ratios) and he's great.
I haven't read the article as I don't want to accept the cookies from the site, but two things occur to me (1) this kind of thing is always a risk around children (2) hopefully he has been exposed before causing harm.
But groups like GG have to be extremely vigilant.

He missed a trick didn't he. Now he could put on a dress and shower/sleep in the same place too.

How can they not make the connection. They are providing even more of an.opening than this man had . And act all horrified when stuff happens.

Wake the fuck up

Vigilence, common sense and good consistent safeguarding procedures are key.

Which is why a combination of Self-ID, a block on deadnaming, and data protection add up to a pretty dangerous combination.

Knowing who someone is, is a pretty fundamental first step for parents or youth leaders considering whether to trust someone with children.

This isn’t a trans issue, but it IS a predatory Male issue, which is what we’ve been saying all along. Paedophiles will go to great lengths to access children. We know this. So why would putting on a dress and declaring themselves a woman for the purpose such a stretch of the imagination? Why aren’t trans people and supporters acknowledging this and standing up with us? Why are they denying it would ever happen?

Experience of being female from childhood teaches us to be wary of males, especially those that go out of their way to be involved with children. Of course that’s not fair on the genuine volunteers, but then it’s not fair on us to have to live our lives being frightened.

I'm a Rainbow leader & my husband is my Unit Helper; without him we'd be unable to do half of the activities we do due to strict adult to child ratios outside the meeting place & lack of parental offers of help when we need it (unfortunately, it seems many parents see us as cheap childminding for an hour). He is never left in a position of being in a 1on1 with a girl (as indeed none of us Leaders are) & has completed Safe Space training. To be suspicious of any man wishing to volunteer is simplistic at best.

Also, in our case, ironic, as he was sexually abused, as a child, by a woman.

As a feminist, it makes me sad that the GGUK policy on admittance of trans women had created so much hate within the community. I think, should I ever have a trans prospective volunteer wish to join me, I'd have the brains to question, scope & assess intent of the person (as well as the balls to say no, this won't work, as I can with any volunteer) and have the back up of my higher-ups to do so. In fact, it's our District Commissioner who gate keeps any volunteer request before they even get to a meeting with children present!

Unfortunately, predatory paedophiles of either sex will get access to children in any situation or childcare setting - but what we can do, as Leaders, is mitigate this risk due to the training & vigilance we have.

As a child, it was my experience in Guiding that lead me to being a feminist - that we could do anything, or be anything & that our thoughts & opinions were just as valid as the boys - so this vilification by feminists in the press on the trans issue is disheartening.

Don't you think as Leaders, we don't have the ability to sniff out a dodgy bloke in a dress & say no to their help?

As a leader, I've had to have a quiet word with my DC when a man with no DBS started "hanging around" for too long at meetings (he was a relative of a female group member). The other leaders didn't see a problem but my DC did. Not all leaders have the same level of common sense and done do but are too polite to say anything.
Also, just how far do you think you'd get up the chain with "this person doesn't have good intentions" in today's GG if "this person" was a transwoman?
You'd be out and they'd be LIC before you can say "self-id".

*some do

Don't you think as Leaders, we don't have the ability to sniff out a dodgy bloke in a dress & say no to their help?

Regardless of how the volunteer dresses, no, I don't think leaders have an ability to do that. All we can do is follow safeguarding procedures knowing that they're there to protect the children (and us) and that anyone who takes affront at being made to follow those procedures shouldn't be working with children.

I don't think so

Sorry, keyboard glitch on last sentence there.

Regardless of how the volunteer dresses, no, I don't think leaders have an ability to do that. All we can do is follow safeguarding procedures knowing that they're there to protect the children (and us) and that anyone who takes affront at being made to follow those procedures shouldn't be working with children.

This. Anyone who is arrogant enough to think, There's nothing to fear. I, with my superhuman spidey senses, could spot an abuser at fifty paces, shouldn't be in charge of any children. We have safeguarding procedures - sometimes including sex segregation - because abusers can be hard to spot.

He's not trans else the paper would have referred to him as 'she'.

Don't you think as Leaders, we don't have the ability to sniff out a dodgy bloke in a dress & say no to their help?

I agree with most of what you say including the value of male volunteers. (DH used to help out with the occasional nursery school outing when they were little - he enjoyed seeing DC with their friends, he gained respect of the staff by helping clear up vomit, and presumably it does no harm for children to see a normal male in their daytime environment. A message that all men are dangeerous is pretty damaging.)

But as a volunteer in a youth sports club, and after a recent conversation with a boarding school matron, I would say it happens more often than you think. Because of data protection and more, schools, groups and clubs wont tell you why someone leaves. My spidey senses worked once, which led to me receiving real abuse from other parents who did not understand why a popular coach suddenly left the club. However no one, but no one, was prepared when a club member was arrested and convicted for offenses that happened outside the club. Clubs, schools, extended families, friends and neighbours. Trust is needed, but so too is common sense and vigilence.

Which is why Stonewall et al should not be used a experts on child protection. Yes they may have some useful insights into how to be supportive of adolescents who are struggling with sexual orientation, but gender is different. Youth organisations need to be able to apply segregation by sex to ensure safety. Stonewall and friends are lobbying for segregation by gender. Not the same....and dangerous.

Don't you think as Leaders, we don't have the ability to sniff out a dodgy bloke in a dress & say no to their help?

If you think you can spot a predator you have failed in your role of safeguarding.

Go away and read ''Predators, Pedophiles, Rapists, And Other Sex Offenders'' by Anne Salter, and then take your training again.

Don't you think as Leaders, we don't have the ability to sniff out a dodgy bloke in a dress & say no to their help?

I'm actually quite taken aback that anyone would write that post-Jimmie Savile. So many children who have been groomed and abused by scout leaders, teachers, priests etc etc will have shown very obvious signs of distress. Society does a good job of valuing abuse victims. Most people don't want to think they are rubbing shoulders with paedophiles. Go away and read James Rhodes' autobiography. Paedophiles can be exceptionally clever and patient. People fail to spot what they're doing day in, day out all around the country

Sorry of *not valuing abuse victims

Don't you think as Leaders, we don't have the ability to sniff out a dodgy bloke in a dress & say no to their help?

Wow, no I don't think you would be able to spot an abuser, why do you think so many people have been abused? It's because abusers don't walk around with a sign, they are manipulative and charming - they groom everyone around them.

I'm actually shocked by your arrogance and really think you should go on some more safeguarding courses and until then stay the hell away from children.

I also don't think that "we can spot dodgy blokes in dresses" but as I pointed out - even if someone has NOT followed safeguarding procedures, leaders can be too polite to say, and I'm betting any doubts (as in, with actual foundation) would be brushed under the carpet if the leader in question was trans.

I agree this isnt a trans issue but it is an issue with self id.

People who say 'do you really think that a bloke is going to self id as a woman just to get access to vulnerable people' or 'I would be able to spot a dodgy bloke and intervene' are naive in the extreme and know nothing about how paedophiles and abusers carry out their crimes.