'Gender' education in year 9 at my daughter's school

[earlydoors42]

Hi. My daughter is in year 9 and told me they have been learning about 'gender' in their Skills For Life class. I rang the school to ask about it. The teacher in charge said he only took over the role in September and seemed interested in why I was asking, and my perspective.

He said they were looking at whether things were feminine or masculine or whether those were stereotypes (sounded good to me) and teaching that biological sex was separate to gender (also sounded good). I told him a bit about my issues with the Stonewall / Mermaids type 'education' and about the Butterfly programme - that the little boy was told that certain toys were 'for girls' and ended up thinking he must be a girl - rather than being told it was ok for boys to play with these things.

Teacher sounded in agreement with all this. He said he got his lesson plans from Barnardos. I wasn't sure what their info was like. He has now sent me the lesson plans and I do have some issues with them.

They start off talking about gender stereotypes, like he had explained. But then move on to "what makes up a person's identity?' which includes the "genderbread person" - with

• identity (gender in their head, which is a spectrum)
• gender expression (how you present yourself)
• attraction (who you are attracted to - males, females or nobody)
• biological sex

I think overall it is quite a basic covering of the topic and not too bad... but I do have issues with a couple of things. For example saying someone male may have a masculine gender expression (wear 'masculine' clothes) but have a female 'gender identity'. How could they explain that without reverting to stereotypes? How on earth can a male, who dresses as a male, think they are female, and how is this taught as FACT at school?

It also says that some trans people have surgery "to change their sex to match their gender". Not actually possible!

I think I am just after some advice as to whether to pursue this or just let it go, as it is only 2 lessons, and my daughter knows enough to ignore it (she just put her pen down and didn't participate) and to discuss with me. Or should I send some info in to the teacher? Should I try to explain why I think it is wrong to teach this as fact?

In an ideal world you would be correct oldcrone I would be very happy to abolish gender and i would also be happy to abolish sex based rights

The later I think can be abolished when men stop abusing women. I can dream. AND yes, if we get rid of gender that dream will come closer.

, when other people stop forcing gender upon us, then we can abolish it.

However today gender identity very much is part of youth culture ( sound naff) possibly because young people often want to bel9ng to something that isn’t family, so making them an easy target for Mra and marketeers.

So all I am saying is that it is probably better to engage in the conversation around gender and gently steer children in a better direction. Gender is important because other people are using it to manipulate children. My belief is that if we ignore it and don’t talk about it, we will be dismissed as dinasours,.

FWIW, I came to this conclusion through talking with dd...it impressed and surprised her that I could empathise and understand her, whilst having a different perspective , and that made her think

MIdgebabe

In your explanation, you missed out the people who don’t even believe gender is a thing, and who, while they may support someone’s right to attach more importance to their belief in gender than to the reality of biological sex, will nonetheless not be compelled to believe in it themselves.

i would also be happy to abolish sex based rights

I'm not sure why you would want to abolish sex based rights, since they are there largely to protect women. The elevation of 'gender' to being more important than sex actually threatens those rights.

So all I am saying is that it is probably better to engage in the conversation around gender and gently steer children in a better direction. Gender is important because other people are using it to manipulate children. My belief is that if we ignore it and don’t talk about it, we will be dismissed as dinasours,

I agree, we should talk about it. But we don't have to believe in it.

Thank you everyone for your responses and links. They were really helpful.

I have just written a reply back to the teacher in charge of this topic. I have explained my position regarding gender ideology and suggested the kids could discuss instances where using someone's gender identity rather than their biological sex could be problematical (I gave lots of examples).

The school is a Stonewall Champion School but the teacher was completely unaware of this until I mentioned it to him, so I am not sure in what way they use this status!

My daughter would not speak up in class as she doesn't want to look like she is 'mean' - she said the problem with all this is that you have to be nice to everyone! So she is mainly just sitting it out (without drawing attention to that fact) - keeping her head down.

"Professor Michele Moore is an expert in Inclusive Education and Disability Studies. She leads human rights projects across the world to support children, their families and those who work with them. She is the Co-Editor of the ground-breaking book Transgender Children and Young People, Born in Your Own Body from Cambridge Scholars. Michele will be discussing ideas from the book – the implications of self-declaration of gender for children and young people, including disabled children"

Maybe the schools just pay the fee to get the 'rubber stamp'.

There seem to be consequences in some schools. This Primary School in Warrington took advice from Stonewall and was a 'Champion':
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3413125-Anger-as-gender-neutral-toilets-introduced-at-primary-school-without-parents-knowing

For clarity I would only abolish sex based rights if they were no longer needed to protect women, in the case that male violence and sexism had been eradicated.

I am not trying to elevanpte gender to be equivalent or higher importance than sex. I am trying to stop other people corrupting the minds of children with such beliefs

Once a concept has a name and people feel it, you can’t say it does not exist, at least as a concept, although I can find no evidence that it has any measurable, physical reality. I can accept that some people do feel that way. teenagers often do stupid things feeling invincible for example. Clearly wrong but a feeling so strong it affects their behaviour is real

The teacher sounds like he really does not have a clue to me.

I think sharing Michele Moore's speech with teachers is important.

MIdgebabe

I'll try and explain more clearly as you appear to have misunderstood me again. I didn't say you were making gender more important than sex, I was referring to what is happening in general with the teaching of gender ideology in schools.

Once a concept has a name and people feel it, you can’t say it does not exist, at least as a concept

I wasn't saying it did exist as a concept, I was saying it shouldn't exist - since it didn't exist not so long ago. If you can imagine a world without male violence (been around since forever), then surely you can imagine a world without genderism (invented a couple of decades ago).

I agree, R0wantrees.

I’ve been struggling to frame a follow-up email to my conversation with someone from the Sex Education Forum, where I was told teachers should be teaching children that “most but not all boys have a penis” and “most but not all girls have a vagina and vulva”.

I think a simple one-liner with a link to this video will suffice .

Last para should start
I wasn't saying it didn't exist as a concept

Autocorrect fail.

I think a simple one-liner with a link to this video will suffice

Send Prof Michele Moore's biog (from video) and urge them to watch to the end!

Will do, R0wan!

Yip, I can imagine both, I think we are circling around the same thing, sorry for any confusion

I sent the Michelle Moore and Lisa Muggeridge videos to DS headteacher.

The idea that schools need to be 'inclusive' is like a mantra, so it's useful that Michelle has been teaching about inclusivity and LGBT for a very long time.

A friend of mine has a daughter in a local girls school here. When I went along to the open day more than a year ago now, I noticed the display about kids in the school and how they identified sexually. It was massively varied I remember thinking. (Pre peak trans observation.) recently she mentioned in conversation that her daughter had “a few trans friends,” in one year group in one class. That’s how this happens. Also the pre school attached to my children’s primary apparently had the options “male
Female
Prefer not to mention”
On their application form this year. I can’t think what 2 year old child self determines their trans identity.
I really want to know how I can opt my kids out of this nonsense. My son will be starting secondary next September. I would happily withdraw all our kids from sex Ed and teach them at home. We are Roman Catholic, myself in a lapsed kind of way- I’m wondering if I can do it on religious grounds.

Sex education - fine
Gender mumbo jumbo - nah

March 2018 Podcast interview with Heather Brunskell-Evans:
Feminist Current:
"Heather Brunskell-Evans was the National Spokesperson for the Women’s Equality Party Policy on Ending Sexual Violence until she started asking critical questions about “trans kids.” In this episode, Meghan Murphy talks to her about her perspective and the response from the Party."
www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/18/podcast-heather-brunskell-evans-wants-talk-idea-trans-kids/