'Gender' education in year 9 at my daughter's school

[earlydoors42]

Hi. My daughter is in year 9 and told me they have been learning about 'gender' in their Skills For Life class. I rang the school to ask about it. The teacher in charge said he only took over the role in September and seemed interested in why I was asking, and my perspective.

He said they were looking at whether things were feminine or masculine or whether those were stereotypes (sounded good to me) and teaching that biological sex was separate to gender (also sounded good). I told him a bit about my issues with the Stonewall / Mermaids type 'education' and about the Butterfly programme - that the little boy was told that certain toys were 'for girls' and ended up thinking he must be a girl - rather than being told it was ok for boys to play with these things.

Teacher sounded in agreement with all this. He said he got his lesson plans from Barnardos. I wasn't sure what their info was like. He has now sent me the lesson plans and I do have some issues with them.

They start off talking about gender stereotypes, like he had explained. But then move on to "what makes up a person's identity?' which includes the "genderbread person" - with

• identity (gender in their head, which is a spectrum)
• gender expression (how you present yourself)
• attraction (who you are attracted to - males, females or nobody)
• biological sex

I think overall it is quite a basic covering of the topic and not too bad... but I do have issues with a couple of things. For example saying someone male may have a masculine gender expression (wear 'masculine' clothes) but have a female 'gender identity'. How could they explain that without reverting to stereotypes? How on earth can a male, who dresses as a male, think they are female, and how is this taught as FACT at school?

It also says that some trans people have surgery "to change their sex to match their gender". Not actually possible!

I think I am just after some advice as to whether to pursue this or just let it go, as it is only 2 lessons, and my daughter knows enough to ignore it (she just put her pen down and didn't participate) and to discuss with me. Or should I send some info in to the teacher? Should I try to explain why I think it is wrong to teach this as fact?

They are a bit neglectful if they don't know what their kids are learning at school. It's important to foster an environment where children communicate about what they are being taught.
Then in turn you can tell them what you want them to learn, the two are totally separate.
I have never let schooling interfere with my education Mark Twain

My daughter tells me she did nothing at school most days. Occasionally she'll tell me what she had for lunch if I'm lucky.

Then in turn you can tell them what you want them to learn, the two are totally separate.

I don't think you can say the two are totally separate if they are being taught things which are actually wrong in school. They are then caught between parents who say one thing and school which says something different, and they have to make a decision about who to believe.

Not all children are lucky enough to have parents who care about their education as much as you do. Those children also have a right not to be indoctrinated with lies and religious ideologies.

OldCrone

Of course, and I agree with you wholeheartedly, but for those who do care about their children's education, don't take "I did nothing" as an answer.
I am maybe a bit stricter though as our last dependant child boards, the others are grown ups now.
She has to tell me every night, or there are consequences.
Stuff from PHSE we discuss at home as well.

DD 11 and DS 7 have an adult trans sibling. I wouldn't sweat it.

What individual families think is irrelevant. We’re talking here about schools being encouraged to ignore the Equality Act and being told they are doing the exact opposite.

On the plus side, none of this is statutory. We can teach our children whatever we think is right for them, within the curriculum. All you need is a few GC staff to ensure documents that come into school do not push the extreme ends of any ideology.

That’s what I’m doing in my school

The trouble is these things bubble around in their heads, and don't necessarily come out to be corrected, or are mis-understood, or worried over.

DS1 does this - he'll hear something, or see something, and a little cloud descends, and I know I'm up for a 10pm wandering out of his bedroom for a visit and chat about whatever it is that's currently disturbing him (he's only 8, but an over-thinker).

I really don't understand why they teach 'gender' at school. Sex education, yes but gender?

Why not just 'people are people - as long as they aren't hurting people of breaking the law, live and let live. Bullying sucks'. That covers it all I think. Why are we so focused on being 'kind and nice' to trans folks and not the disabled or elderly?

My son is in y8 and about to undergo the Stonewall (Barnardo's endorsed) propaganda lessons.

I am in the process of drafting another letter to the HT. I could let it go, but if nobody speaks out how can we challenge and change this?

I've had to become that parent and the HT and staff think I'm a TE**. Should be fun at parent's evening.

But if just one sentence hits home. If I can make it harder for Challenor and co to access kids, if I can prevent one child from being abused (my own son is GC so he can think for himself, but this is bigger than us, it's about right and wrong, safeguarding) then I don't mind being branded the bigoted thorn in the side until trans pressure groups' dangerous hold and motives re schools and Govt. are exposed.

I'd ask you to challenge this ideology every time.

Here is a link to my current thread if any of that may help

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3385418-Stonewall-Champion-School-HT-asks-what-safeguarding-concerns

Suburban surely children are aware of trans people? That's what I'm trying to say. My younger DC totally get it. Also, DD wears exclusively what are known as boys' clothes, has what are commonly thought of as boys' interests, but knows she's a girl.

DIscussiom ariund gender, how it can stereotype people, how some people can feel uncomfortable with their gender /sex comb8nation seems a good idea to mer. Normalising the idea that sex need not match gender is good.

Children are being exposed to these ideas in other places after all. They know the sterotypes implicitly

The surgical case is interesting, but at least today surgery is only allowed in a narrow range of circumstances. If it is presented as a last resort that would be fine

DIscussiom ariund gender, how it can stereotype people, how some people can feel uncomfortable with their gender /sex comb8nation seems a good idea to mer. Normalising the idea that sex need not match gender is good.

Why do we need to have 'gender' as a concept at all? It just means the social/cultural norms which are attached to each sex, and is used as a means of keeping women in a subservient role.

What does it mean for 'sex to match gender'? If we can all just be who we want, there is no need for 'gender' to match or not match sex. It is redundant, and it would be better if it just went back to the grammar texts where it belongs. "La table" is feminine, it doesn't mean it's female, or has any female, or indeed any feminine, attributes. It's just grammar.

WE don’t need gender, but it does exist as a bunch of sterotypes, and wouldn’t you rather that children learn about what it really is and means from sensible sources than from what their friends say and what they see online?

Gender does exist as a way of describ8ng people’s behavious even if we don’t like it, just look at the poor girl who is called a bay for playing football. Those children are telling her that her gender doesn’t match her sex.

But if just one sentence hits home. If I can make it harder for Challenor and co to access kids, if I can prevent one child from being abused (my own son is GC so he can think for himself, but this is bigger than us, it's about right and wrong, safeguarding) then I don't mind being branded the bigoted thorn in the side until trans pressure groups' dangerous hold and motives re schools and Govt. are exposed.

Professor Kathleen Stock twitter comment:
twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1059382989107462144

Gender does exist as a way of describ8ng people’s behavious even if we don’t like it, just look at the poor girl who is called a bay for playing football. Those children are telling her that her gender doesn’t match her sex.

No, the children are being sexist and homophobic. Its a form of bullying that many girls and women have faced when not conforming to stereotypes.

Suburban surely children are aware of trans people?

I couldn’t possibly comment on what “children”, as a homogenous group, are aware of. If they know a trans person, they probably do, and if they don’t, they probably don’t.

And describing clothing and interests as typical of one sex is what got us into this mess in the first place.

Gender does exist as a way of describ8ng people’s behavious even if we don’t like it, just look at the poor girl who is called a bay for playing football. Those children are telling her that her gender doesn’t match her sex.

But isn’t that the message that TRAs are promoting? That a girl who doesn’t conform to gender stereotypes is a boy.

Teaching transgenderism reinforces this kind of bullying.

It tells kids that calling a girl a ‘boy’ for not being girly enough is not only acceptable but factually correct.

Yes, the children are being bullies, but for them to understand why what they are doing is wrong,.

they need know that they should not be forcing any expectation on anybody. That behaviour is not directly coupled to sex.

The language of gender is useful in hav8ng those discussions and enable us to separate sex and it’s biological implications and facts from society induced norms and nonsense .

So are people here saying we don’t like gender so we don’t want our children taught the truth about it?

So are people here saying we don’t like gender so we don’t want our children taught the truth about it?

What is “the truth about gender”?

Is it not possible to simply opt-out?

Sorry, but I would categorically not want my (future) children to be taught any of this garbage.

You can talk about sex roles, sex inequality and sex stereotypes without using the word 'gender' or promoting the horseshit of genderist ideology.

The draft guidelines for the teaching of RSE says that children should be taught 'gender identity' (para 71) The consultation on these guidelines closes today so if you disapprove fill it in tonight. I only answered two questions on the consultations nos 13 and 14 that asked about that paragraph and my comments were basically that gender identity is a load of twaddle, although did word it better. I would probably have answered more questions had I have had the time but as I only had a spare 5 minutes I focused on that.

The draft guidelines for the teaching of RSE says that children should be taught 'gender identity' (para 71)

I didn't realise that.

71. Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way. All pupils should feel that the content is relevant to them and their developing sexuality. Sexual orientation and gender identity should be explored at a timely point and in a clear, sensitive and respectful manner. When teaching about these topics, it must be recognised that young people may be discovering or coming to terms with their sexual orientation or gender identity.

Why on earth should children be taught that they have a 'gender identity'? The genderists really have got their claws into the government, haven't they?

I think the “truth about gender “ is

Gender is something that some people feel is important to them and people should be allowed any gender expression that does not hurt others, without being bullied

That not everyone fits any gender identity , and a gender identity may change over time like other aspects of personality

THat a gender identity should not be assumed about anybody, because it is how they feel. Many people find gender too restrictive for their personalities

And gender is a set of ideals , sterotypes, that has been used to harm both men and women

Gender is not sex , sex is fixed

Women are abused for their sex. Transpeople are abused for their gender identity. BIth are very wrong.

That much that they see and hear about gender on social media may be false news

Why do you think gender is important, MIdgebabe? Why don't we just have sex (= biological characteristics) and personality? What is the purpose of gender and gender identity other than to try to fit people into boxes and label them?