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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Spectator: Mumsnet and the British media aren’t ‘transphobic’

72 replies

TimeLady · 06/11/2018 19:31

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/mumsnet-and-the-british-media-arent-transphobic/

Thank you, Robert Jackman
Extract:
It’s true that transgender issues are frequently discussed on Mumsnet – but why assume this is down to bigotry, rather than the fact that many of these concerns (the housing of male sex offenders in women’s prisons, for example) resonate deeply with the women of Middle England? (continues)

This is the article he is discussing:

theoutline.com/post/6536/british-feminists-media-transphobic?zd=2&zi=dwpk5f4m

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 07/11/2018 10:11

Thank you MN!

And it is a lot more than the trans-issue.

I will not have been the only one who felt silenced by the mob on Fb etc, because I was underwhelmed by Junkers and his cronies, by Corbyn and his cronies and by petitions demanding that media/academic people be sacked, essentially for wrong think. I did not dare speak up as I know I would be branded a racist, fascist and more, but eventually decided that I needed to add my voice to those very brave women (and men) who have put their heads above the parapet.

We don't have a democracy without debate. MN deserves huge credit for providing a platform.

And we as a collective voice deserve credit too. The tide is turning. Orthodoxies are being questioned. I hope that again British people can demonstrate the importance of a robust and open democracy.

R0wantrees · 07/11/2018 10:21

current thread discussing article:
'British feminism is failing when it comes to intersectionality'

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3416738-This-has-made-me-start-Wednesday-off-in-a-real-grump-The-Pool-article

Needmoresleep · 07/11/2018 10:39

My post sounded more jingoistic than I intended.

What I meant was that it seems as if the dissenting voice in the ideaology infecting the Anglo-Saxon world, seems to be almost exclusively coming from here. And MN had a big role in amplifying the few loan voices speaking common sense.

Its amazing that where once there would have been a TRA twitter pile on, Stonewall, Guardian US etc are now experiencing the opposite. From intelligent and articulate posters.

BeyondVicious · 07/11/2018 10:40

"Middle England"... Angry

Grin
ThisMadnessMustStop · 07/11/2018 10:52

beyondvicious I wore my adult human female t-shirt to Waitrose this morning after the school run. Smile

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 07/11/2018 10:58

My adult human female hoodie is my favourite item of clothing at the moment - all warm & snuggly.

Freespeecher · 07/11/2018 11:22

Nice to see Mumsnet getting some well-deserved recognition for taking the 'they go low, we go high' approach (as opposed to, say, egging Paris Lees' house).

WomaninBoots · 07/11/2018 12:01

What I also meant to say after my tired analogy making was a massive thank you to Mumsnet and all the posters here. I feel like my whole process of political thought has been utterly flipped on its head and matured enormously. I'm suddenly understanding the toxicity of identity politics and of echo chambers and bubbles. And I understand better how to consider another point of view and defend my own. I can't really explain but it's been something of a revelation.

And I have also managed to turn DH gender critical... or at least reveal the inner gender critic under the "be nice" socialist that had got hooked into thinking the prevailing trans narrative was correct. Its a small thing but I am so releaved that I've started to successfully talk about it with him! And it's thanks to Mumsnet because I wouldn't have had the right words without reading so much on here.

theOtherPamAyres · 07/11/2018 12:18

I thought that the term MIddle England was an apt and well chosen one. Middle England means the people who vote. The people who buy stuff and make choices. It's the zeitgeist.

It used to be thought that opposition to self i/d came from a minority group of "feminesbians*", the so-called TxrFs - but when Middle England/Scotland/Wales/Northern Ireland stand beside the feminesbians, it's time for the elite to make a temporary and tactical withdrawal with fine words and doublespeak.

*Feminesbians - a description of uppity women coined by Graham Linehan's writing partner, Arthur Matthews, in a spoof biography of a reactionary activist "Well Remembered Days"

ErrolTheDragon · 07/11/2018 12:34

'Middle England' is Scots, welsh and northern Irish exclusionary ... nothing wrong with the 'middle' part though, is there, though?

OlennasWimple · 07/11/2018 13:00

When I spoke to someone who knows the consultation well, they mentioned the “Mumsnet effect” – the fact that the Government had received cautious responses from women all over the UK, representing all ages and backgrounds.

I read that and cheered too!

R0wantrees · 07/11/2018 13:39

Interesting UnHerd article today by GRAEME ARCHER

'Why am I turning to the Left?
We need a new movement to take on and defeat the demon of modern identity politics'
concludes:
"Here are my dream dinner-party guests:

Julie Bindel, Peter Tatchell, Janice Turner, Linda Bellos, Claire Fox, Helen Pluckrose, James Lindsay and Peter Boghossian.

No, I’m not “on a journey” from centre-Right to radical-Left. Cut me in half and I bleed the same suburban lower-middle class Toryism that pooterishly informs all the pieces I write for UnHerd: I am aspidistra-man! Come, sit quietly on the bus with me, and let’s keep ourselves to ourselves, shall we?

But it’s nothing as basic as party (or even class) allegiance that conjures my imagined affinity with a heterogeneous but definitely Leftish group of activists, thinkers, writers and academics.

It’s their commitment to intellectual rigour; their willingness, even if it costs them abuse from fellow members of their tribe, to use words as clearly as possible to describe the world as best as rational people can manage.

Janice writes for the Times – without doubt, that newspaper’s best writer, by several orders of magnitude – often about the Gender Recognition Act, documenting the actual violence committed against actual women by some of the GRA’s most vociferous advocates. Just recently, she produced a column that took on what elsewhere I’ve called “wordcrime”, the practice of some activists to equate any stated doubts about gender self-identification with physical violence against transgender people, and to use this pseudo-equivalence to shut down debate.

Whence comes the self-righteous fury of the activists, such as those who resigned from the judging panel of the Comment Awards in fury that Turner’s name was included in a short-list? What gives activists the intellectual heft to pervert a thoughtful question from a government minister about the rise in gender reassignment consultations for young people into accusations of an actual crime?

Academia does this odious heavy-lifting, of course. Pseudo-academia, anyway, and I can only apologise for the ubiquity of that prefix in this piece: it’s simply too apposite to ignore. One of the Pluckrose, Lindsay and Boghossian papers, accepted for publication, recommended “experiential reparations” for “privileged students”, reparations that included “sitting on the floor, wearing chains, or intentionally being spoken over”. When academics believe such ideas worth publishing, then they must (one assumes) be teaching similar obscenities to their students.

Thus the generation of that most lethal form of activist, the campaigner whose self-righteous desire to criminalise your thoughts is justified by appeal to “theory”. The social ills my dinner party companions are fighting draw their toxic liquor, I think, from the poisoned well of grievance studies in the University.

There was much talk this summer about the need for a new “centre” party, talk that quickly evaporated as the motives of the leftover Blairites and unpopular Conservatives involved became clear. We don’t need a new vehicle to provide income and pensions for endless squealing about the EU referendum.

We do need a movement to take on and defeat modern identity politics, however, wherever it raises one of its Hydra heads. Such a campaigning movement needs the active participation of the centre-Right too: this is the “radical centre” that Britain needs."

"Graeme Archer is a statistician and writer, who has contributed extensively to ConservativeHome, the Telegraph and CapX. In the 2015-17 Parliament he spent a year as a cabinet minister’s speech-writer."

Freespeecher · 07/11/2018 14:19

R0wantrees
A good article. For me though it's more that they're liberal (in their rejection of groupthink and focus on the individual) than Radical Leftists though.
I'd add Maajid Nawaz to the group and he's stood as a Lib Dems and is wary of the Left (identitarian division).

It's a very hard time to be a member of the traditional Left. Nick Cohen once described the Labour Party as 'muddling along, trying to improve people's lives'. I like this definition and they could do worse than trying to get back to it.

R0wantrees · 07/11/2018 14:23

Freespeecher the issue is likely to be in our definitions: liberal, left, radical etc mean different things to different people.

Freespeecher · 07/11/2018 14:52

R0wantrees
Very true - I once described myself as a liberal in France and the room temperature immediately dropped by about ten degrees. Over there a Liberal is very much an economic liberal, total free-marketeer type, as opposed to the nice, fluffy Lib Dem that I was trying to describe.

R0wantrees · 07/11/2018 15:02

Having witnessed the responses by some in the LibDems recently regardless of whether they identify more as 'Radical', 'Orange Book' or 'Social Democrat' Liberals, they certainly couldn't be described as behaving in a nice, fluffy, liberal or democratic manner! Wink

Freespeecher · 07/11/2018 16:30

Sadly true - this was 20 years ago though (pauses to place mental flower on grave of what used to be the Liberal Democrats).

theOtherPamAyres · 07/11/2018 17:54

Even the cartoonist at the Spectator is getting in on the act.

The Spectator: Mumsnet and the British media aren’t ‘transphobic’
ThisMadnessMustStop · 07/11/2018 17:59

Article in the Times today about safe spaces at universities going too far and the restriction of free speech Safe spaces on campus have ‘gone too far’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/31f0138a-e20f-11e8-9838-efa7e96cbe2b

R0wantrees · 07/11/2018 18:04

from link above:
Its a short but significant article by Rosemary Bennett, Education Editor

"Campus safe spaces have gone too far and students are not encountering unpopular views and rigorous debate, the head of the Office for Students has said.

Sir Michael Barber accepted that quiet places had a part to play but said the idea that a whole university should be a safe space was wrong. Inviting controversial speakers was important, he said, as was a “diversity of perspective” in lectures and seminars.

“Being proactive about free speech means exposing students to argument,” he said. “Sometimes education makes you feel uncomfortable.”

Asked at a higher education festival run by the think tank Wonkhe about the safe space movement, he added: “It has certainly been taken too far.”

“Safe spaces” were imported from the US and were originally rooms set aside for marginalised or vulnerable students to debate issues arising from their own experiences. Their scope expanded as many students argued that universities themselves should be environments in which they could debate without being offended or feeling uncomfortable. As students have become paying customers, tutors have grown concerned that they should avoid challenging views or discussing unpopular opinions."

ThisMadnessMustStop · 07/11/2018 18:43

Thanks Rowan - Sharey link fail

welshbookworm · 07/11/2018 19:26

Wine Another proud woman here.

I came to gender criticism via Twitter less than 2 months ago and have been on the steepest of learning curves. Being pointed in the direction of Mumsnet by one of the people I follow was the icing on the cake. So liberating to be able to discuss this whole matter here in an open and balanced way. Incidentally I've been browsing the Spartacus thread from 2 years ago and silently cheering at so many powerful posts.

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