The Spectator: Mumsnet and the British media aren’t ‘transphobic’

[TimeLady]

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/mumsnet-and-the-british-media-arent-transphobic/

Thank you, Robert Jackman
Extract:
It’s true that transgender issues are frequently discussed on Mumsnet – but why assume this is down to bigotry, rather than the fact that many of these concerns (the housing of male sex offenders in women’s prisons, for example) resonate deeply with the women of Middle England? (continues)

This is the article he is discussing:

theoutline.com/post/6536/british-feminists-media-transphobic?zd=2&zi=dwpk5f4m

Agreed, glad I subscribed

He says
Quoting “This is why many British newspapers have expressed concerns about the GRA reform: not because of any underlying bigotry but because it seeks to apply a fringe ideological conviction to an immensely complicated question.”

“Fringe ideological conviction” really sums it up for me. A perfectly pithy way of putting it!

I do wonder what the U.K. Debate would look like without MN. I think it radicalized more women than any other source. 

I’m also a new subscriber to the Spectator - what a breath of fresh air. Also just recently signed up to the Times as a result of this board.

I have learnt so much from the women here - as a PP said, the discussion has really made me think critically and deeply, in a way I’m not sure I’ve done for a long time. The last month has been a revelation. I’ve emailed my MP, emailed an old lecturer who signed the academics’ letter to the Guardian, filled out petitions and the consultation response, bought t-shirts, talked to my daughters, and raised the subject around the lunch table at work. All of it, absolutely all of it, because of Mumsnet.

Next step - muster courage to wear t-shirt out of the house...

This is a powerful place that's for sure

and yes, we did do that, and yes it does make me proud

We did do that.

Every woman who posted on Mumsnet, commented on social, talked to a friend, emailed an MP, distributed leaflets...

US.

Really interesting that the gender critical responses came from all over whereas the TRA type responses were concentrated in the cities. If that doesn’t give the government pause for thought, I don’t know what will.

Thank you to everyone on Feminist Chat. Before coming here I was always highly suspect of the trans narrative, only talking about my concerns with my husband. I always thought there must be a problem with my thought process as 'it's important to be kind'. Mumsnet has massively helped me clarify my thoughts and also seeing the breadth of the issue - safety in women's prisons, refuges, changing rooms, the long term health implications for young trans people and even more simply how do we explain 'gender' to young people.

Thank you all! Trans ideology needs to be continued to be challenged. Well done Mumsnet.

Thank you The Spectator. I am another woman who took out a subscription in the summer along with one to The Times because of their willingness to print well written gender critical articles.

Yay us!

Ah, yes, "legitimate concerns". Where have we seen that one used before...?

Yes def proud

I’ve just renewed my economist and now the spectator

As an aside, this is the screen image I get when I open the Outline article refrred to and the wiggly 'power?' line which appears to come from the womans right nostril moves!

That Outline article is hilarious. Once again asking questions is said to be transphobic.

It also ignore the voices of many trans people, gay people, men and detransitioned people also opposed to self id, laying the blame just with women - misogyny in splendid shape.

Having said that I'm very proud to be part of the MN massive. We are badass and proud

It's a travesty that TRA's are written about as being all trans people. Many trans people have been thrown under the bus by the TRA movement. I do feel concerned for them.

Mumsnet effect” – the fact that the Government had received cautious responses from women all over the UK, representing all ages and backgrounds.

I am proud of Man Friday and Posie, who put their heads up above the parapets. I salute you, ladies.

Bit like the Daily Mail running a piece saying Conservative Home isn't biased against Labour.

It's a travesty that TRA's are written about as being all trans people. Many trans people have been thrown under the bus by the TRA movement. I do feel concerned for them.

They seem to represent very few people who would be considered trans in any meaningful sense. In my experience, TRAs seem to be mostly bearded woke bros who are delighted to have found a way to vent their pent-up misogyny.

Well said heresy
"Instead we have these "liberal feminist" sneering at mothers and valiant radical feminists who have been working their arses off for women since before I was born."

This^^ rips my knitting. Snotty nosed stuck up brats.

Great article, except for the 'middle England' bit

Ah, yes, "legitimate concerns". Where have we seen that one used before...?

Well for instance we often see it used where people have, you know, legitimate concerns 🙄

Ah, yes, "legitimate concerns". Where have we seen that one used before...?

UnHerd article, by PETER FRANKLIN
March 2018
'Radical leftwingers must recognise ‘legitimate concerns’ or they’ll cause widespread destruction'
(extract)
"There’s an old joke from the Soviet Union that goes something like this:

A man applies for permission to emigrate to West.

For this he is summoned to a meeting with a grim-faced apparatchik.

“So, Comrade, why is that you want to leave? Are you perhaps dissatisfied with the leadership of our glorious motherland? “

“I have no complaints, ” says the man.

“Well, then, is it your job you’re unhappy with?”

“I have no complaints. “

“What about the housing we’ve provided you with?”

“I have no complaints.”

The apparatchik continues to challenge him, but each time comes the same reply: “I have no complaints.”

“So why do you want to live in the West?”

“I would like to have some complaints.”

Writing in the New Statesman, Helen Lewis observes that, in our own time and place, the hard left doesn’t just discourage complaints, but also legitimate concerns:

“There’s a meme on Twitter among the what I think of as the Woke Left :  a group that’s hard to define, but one you might associate with some or all of the following concepts: open borders, tone policing, privilege, ‘sex work is work’, no platforming, Corbynism.

“The meme is this. You put heavy quote marks around the phrase “legitimate concerns”  –  maybe make it “““legitimate concerns””” if you really want to have them rolling in the aisles  –  particularly when it comes to discussions of immigration. The implication is that there are no such things as legitimate concerns .”

Lewis sees this attempt to delegitimise legitimate concerns as a “dismissive rhetorical trick”:

“The… meme is very Twitter: snarky, a bit dickish, superior. I understand the impulse: sometimes the temptation to rebut an opponent’s point by turning it up to 11 is irresistible. The trouble is that it absolves you of the hard work of argument." (continues)

unherd.com/2018/03/radical-leftwingers-must-recognise-legitimate-concerns-face-destruction/

Yes. I'm one of the city-dwellers. I just don't understand why people are deriding the rest of the country.

I used to be a city-dweller and now I'm not. And believe you me, people outside the cities perceive the derision very well indeed. Like I say, once Brexit is over, I think the city-dwellers will feel the wrath on all sorts of other issues, including this one.

Yes, that's kind if where The Woke are coming from. They have a kind of luxury of thinking it. I had a flash image of The Hunger Games with The Woke occupying The Capital... enjoying congratulating each other of being soooooo brave and stunning and above the drudgery of biological sex. Leaving the dangerous business of reproduction to the proles in the Districts

I think it's a good analogy.

Bloody bravo I say. To us all.
Personally, I've met with my schools, written to my MP at length, I've written to 2 Rape Crisis orgs and a prison birth companion service. I've achieved successful results.

We should all be very proud. Thank you Mumsnet for this platform.

Do all make a point of telling Fraser Nelson your feelings: [email protected]

(I have no doubt he is aware of FWC anyway, but having written, validated support from supporters and subscribers can only help further)

Oh R0wantrees

That joke is bloody perfect

Old Russian jokes often are!

Good call shots.