The Spectator: Mumsnet and the British media aren’t ‘transphobic’

[TimeLady]

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/mumsnet-and-the-british-media-arent-transphobic/

Thank you, Robert Jackman
Extract:
It’s true that transgender issues are frequently discussed on Mumsnet – but why assume this is down to bigotry, rather than the fact that many of these concerns (the housing of male sex offenders in women’s prisons, for example) resonate deeply with the women of Middle England? (continues)

This is the article he is discussing:

theoutline.com/post/6536/british-feminists-media-transphobic?zd=2&zi=dwpk5f4m

Who is the editor of the Spectator these days?
Maximum respect for their courage and integrity.

Frazer Nelson. The Spectator's input has been invaluable in this debate.

The Spectator. You have earned yourself a subscriber for talking sense and speaking up.

Oh, another writer breaks cover. Thanks Robert Jackman.

Loved this sentence:
The writer isn’t wrong that Mumsnet holds deep influence – just not necessarily with the media. When I spoke to someone who knows the consultation well, they mentioned the “Mumsnet effect”

That holds true, not only for women's rights, but also for scarves, and Argos ravens!

Lots of people lurked on the raven thread, didn't comment, but most definitely bought a raven!

No echo chamber here, just people reading, thinking, and making up their minds - whether that's to buy a raven, to formula feed or breast feed, to LTB or not, or to challenge the current trans-rhetoric, Mumsnet is a powerhouse of women collectively listening, and making up their own minds.

(I suspect there are some penis-havers who hate that we have a space here for making-our-own-minds-up after listening to people. Must be infuriating!)

Thank you again The Spectator.

Yes I have only ever heard 1 journalist talk about Mumsnet in a positive light, saying "don't underestimate Mumsnet" or words to that effect and that was Ian Dunt. I think he also retweeted Julie Bindel after the Jam Jar incident. He could rip the TRAs to shreds. I hope one day he might.

^ verbally, just to clarify, before that gets screenshotted somewhere.

Thank you to the Spectator and Robert Jackman! Great share, TimeLady!

Just in case Edie Miller (who wrote the Outline article) is reading this thread, I'd like to point her towards another one in case she missed it:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3377940-Tell-MNHQ-why-you-use-Mumsnet

This from the article -

This would come with the understanding that this choice would always take precedence over biological sex (including, for example, when it comes to the housing of prisoners.) 'This choice' being self-id.

I thought we'd been reassured (ha!) that no one PC trumped another. Although plainly one will, of course. But has it been confirmed that this will be policy?

thread discussing the Outline article by Edie Miller
'Why is British media so transphobic?
Turns out homeopathy haters and mums are partly responsible.'

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3415244-hilarious-article

I took at a subscription with The spectator last week. This masterpiece was the final straw www.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/how-do-you-snare-a-journalist-offer-an-award/

The Spectator editor is really hot. Just saying.

It's very good, puts the US-UK situation very succinctly.

Although I am going to have a tiny resentful harumph at being forcibly assigned "middle England" when I have always identified as Northern.

‘”Mumsnet effect” – the fact that the Government had received cautious responses from women all over the UK, representing all ages and backgrounds.’

Anyone else read that sentence and feel overwhelmingly proud?

We did that! All of us here and on Twitter and anywhere else gender critical women talk.

To women everywhere...

Bold fail.... oh well...

When I spoke to someone who knows the consultation well, they mentioned the “Mumsnet effect” – the fact that the Government had received cautious responses from women all over the UK, representing all ages and backgrounds. The responses calling for the more ideological system, however, tended to be concentrated in smaller clusters, usually from London and university cities – places which typically vote Labour.

Town and city, as we have mentioned around here several times.

People in Labour, such as Lisa Nandy who has written about the town/city divide, should really start thinking about this. Once Brexit is done, there will be room for a lot more issues, including this one.

Town and city, as we have mentioned around here several times.

Yes. I'm one of the city-dwellers. I just don't understand why people are deriding the rest of the country.

I honestly think the gender-critical position is far more common-sense, less elitist, and represents the interests of actual women. It's also the only one that makes any logical sense. Which is what feminism should look like, I've always thought.

Instead we have these "liberal feminist" sneering at mothers and valiant radical feminists who have been working their arses off for women since before I was born. I think such "liberal feminists" have spent too much time reading Queer Theory, paying extortionate tuition fees, and doing "research projects" in word salad so that they seem extra clever.

It seems to me that at least some of this is may be about people justifying their "education".

Any idiot who says reproductive sex is now irrelevant should expect to be called out on it. Because it's complete and utter nonsense. I don't care how important they think they are, or how many hours they've invested in trying to understand Judith Butler.

Bunk is bunk, no matter what fancy words they use to try to disguise it.

They fear you Mumsnet women because you call them out on bullshit. You are amazing. It's no wonder they call this place a university. I feel like I've already developed more thinking skills after a short time here than I did after certain modules during my own education.

Thanks for being my professors!

Anyone else read that sentence and feel overwhelmingly proud?

Yes 🍷

🍷

You should be proud as well, it's because of everything I have learned on this board that I responded to the Consultation, emailed Women's Hour & my local Labour Party, delurked & started posting on here, and started engaging my mostly male colleagues at work in conversation about this subject. All in the last 3 weeks! (Have been lurking and learning for the last 2 years). Thank you for giving me the knowledge and the courage to use my voice to speak about this.

Yep, women, women who are women, before birth, after birth irrespective of birth, I guess the reason we have to be derided is because we are;

so CAPABLE
so KNOWING
so UNAFRAID TO SAY WHAT WE THINK
and say what we KNOW

I work in the City of London, in Investment Banking and l ways have and yet have lived in rural Hampshire and the South Coast all of that time. I am a left and a righty, city and country. Makes no difference to the facts of life.

While I was reading heresayandwitchcraft's post above, particularly the "biological sex is irrelevant" bit... I thought...

Yes, that's kind if where The Woke are coming from. They have a kind of luxury of thinking it. I had a flash image of The Hunger Games with The Woke occupying The Capital... enjoying congratulating each other of being soooooo brave and stunning and above the drudgery of biological sex. Leaving the dangerous business of reproduction to the proles in the Districts (I know that not how it actually is in The Hunger Games but it's what it made me think). Like they're above the rest of us somehow....

Leaving us all in the cage so they can free themselves of it.

Tired ramble.

It makes sense to this tired person, Woman. Many of these people talking about ‘cis’, white, able privilege seem to be wilfully ignorant of their own excessive privilege in dismissing the biological realities of others.

Oh how the pen is mightier than the sword, when it comes to marshalling arguments and analysing what's going on.

I love the voices in the Spectator: reasonable, logical, balanced, factual and utterly devastating for the ill-informed pro-trans lobby here and abroad.

Nice one, Spectator