Jeremy Vine

[NoseringGirl]

Was anyone watching?
They were discussing a white man who had funding for the theatre group he was involved in that was for POC. He identifies as mixed race but has white Irish parents. Some discussion about whether he has mixed race ancestry.
Jamelia saying that if people can identify as the opposite sex then they can identify as different races. Man on the panel (forget his name now) saying that you can change sex but not race.

Yes, I saw it.

Jamelia says hooray, this is brilliant, he's a great guy and it's just fandabbydozy that we can all identify our own race and gender these days, whoop whoop.

Iain Dale puts his best patronising face on and says Jamelia is a very silly girl and of course you can identify your own gender but it's very bad and terrible to identify your own race.

Jeremy asks Jamelia if she would accept him as a woman based on his say so there in the studio and she basically says of course, you can be a black woman if you like.

Cheers from the audience.

Kill. Me. Now.

Cool, my period is due and I’m already getting the tiredness that comes with it. Maybe I should change sex for a week and it’ll go away. I’m stuck with my white privilege though I guess.

I like Iain Dale, but my heart sank when I heard him say people can change sex (but not race)...

Yes he normally comes across as very balanced and sensible on the show. I was surprised by his attitude to this issue.

Was dale able to rationalize why someone can change sex but not race?

Was also covered on BBC London, Vanessa Phelps this morning-a caller rang in understandably cross saying it smacks of white privilege for a mixed race man to identify into the category of black, whereas black people cant identify out of being black. (Just like women can’t identify out of being women.)

JV doesn't get it, despite this

I like to think Jamelia is undercover. That can be the only reason why someone would agree transrace is fine - that they secretly disagree with transgender too.

Zutt he didn't really give a rationale, just stated it as 'fact' that can you change sex but can't possibly change race.

Race is far more a social construct than sex.

You can be of mixed race but you can’t be of mixed sex - even if (as in 100% of cases) your biological parents were one of each.

Yep, race is just a mish mash of assorted common features across a population, it's in no way quantifiable in the same way sex is.

Just going to leave this clip from the brilliant Atlanta here ...

Talking about this on the JV radio programme now. JV just got agitated at an email he read out, stating the opinion that if someone identifies as mixed race it's fine and up to them - no problem. JV says it's different from gender because 'gender is about more than just body parts and race isn't...' and then kind of trails off as if he's realised what utter foolish nonsense he's talking.

What a knob.

Radio2 just now talking about the "trans race" bloke. JV kept saying "I thought we all just accepted that if you are a man that says he is a woman then he is" and "Isn't it that being a woman is more than just the bodily stuff and that race is just is I dunno!"

I was shouting "You do fucking know, you TWAT!"

Then reminded myself, JV is just JK for the middle classes

OOh, cross posted, Absinthe I took far too long to type that, I was so annoyed!

Blimey Jeremy vine showed himself up today. The funny thing is he won’t even realise that he has.

Oops. I messed up a C&P. Will report!

'JV says it's different from gender because 'gender is about more than just body parts and race isn't...' and then kind of trails off as if he's realised what utter foolish nonsense he's talking. '

Dear god. Sounds like the JV show is up to its usual pitiful standards

I can't believe Iain Dale was saying that you can change 'gender' like its an established fact. What a muppet

Iain was specifically saying you can change sex he didn't even say gender. That really struck me.

Maybe the difference is that trans people seem to know they are the gender they identify as, and have always been thus since early childhood. Perhaps it is useful to understand this trans-racial thing as something this guy chose as an adult, and therefore of a different quality.

Huh?

Sex : Gender. They aren't interchangeable, so that makes no sense!

Agreed re the radio show. JV had it arse-about-face! He said transgender is different because gender is not factual, but race is.

So either he doesn’t realise that gender and sex have been conflated by trans activism or he doesn’t think biological sex exists.

I think race is a bit ‘woolier’ as a concept than sex is. Please don’t think I’m casting any doubt on the existence of racism- of course that exists, sadly.

But a person is either male or female, including intersex people.

A person might have genes from different ethnic roots, and I would assume that identifying as black/brown/white/dual heritage is a personal and subjective choice for those who know their ethnic make up.

Of course, ‘identifying’ as black when you have apparently no factual justification in doing so is obviously wrong!

Maybe the difference is that trans people seem to know they are the gender they identify as, and have always been thus since early childhood.

That seems to increasingly not be the case nowadays (if it ever was). There may well be a parallel ... this bloke was assumed to be black by other people, based on his appearance, so he decided to go with that. Children now who are gender nonconforming are being told they're 'trans'. (The huge difference is that this bloke needed no harmful medical interventions).

They were talking about this on the World at One on R4 too. Sarah Montague interviewed a friend of Anthony Lennon (the man in question, who is white and whose parents are white/Irish).

I didn't catch the whole thing but the friend appeared to be saying that because he'd had 'struggles' in his life it was fine, basically. He'd suffered so hey, why not opt in to share the struggles of actual black people and claim funding for 'theatre practitioners of colour ?

It's all about the feelz, folks! Now, where have I heard that before? 🤔