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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another fatal incel attack

53 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/11/2018 22:54

www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/tallahassee-yoga-shooter-incel-far-right-misogyny-video
Right Misogynist Who Railed Against Women And Minorities Online

Scott Beierle killed two women at a Florida yoga studio on Friday night. He had posted a series of misogynistic videos and songs online, and appeared to identify as an “involuntary celibate.” This is the second deadly attack by an “involuntary celibate” in 2018.

OP posts:
Gncq · 03/11/2018 23:02

You don't really get on Celsius outside of America. Let's hope it doesn't spread here...

Gncq · 03/11/2018 23:03

Celsius? ^incels

Gncq · 03/11/2018 23:04

It's alarming how proud they are of their misogyny.

SputnikBear · 03/11/2018 23:29

What’s quite sad is that judging by the news photos he was actually an ok looking guy. So his inability to attract women must have been due to his own behaviour.

LillyoftheCentralValley · 04/11/2018 01:44

Pretty sure you have potential incels and incel wannabes outside the US.

What you don't have is easy access to an AR-17.

ohello · 04/11/2018 02:02

“I’d like to send a message now to the adolescent males ... that are in the position, the situation, the disposition of Elliot Rodger, of not getting any, no love, no nothing. This endless wasteland that breeds this longing and this frustration. That was me, certainly, as an adolescent,” he said.

This is the second deadly attack this year in which Rodger has been mentioned by the suspected assailant. A man who wrote anti-women references on his Facebook account allegedly killed 10 people in Toronto in April when he drove his van into a crowd.

I use to frequent suicide forums. And I eventually noticed that most guys tend to kill themselves because they can't get a girlfriend. Whereas most women kill themselves because they've either been raped or experienced too much sexual bullying/abuse.

RedToothBrush · 04/11/2018 07:09

Amnesty are agreeing and encouraging these monsters when they talk about 'a right' to sex. The idea being this will stop all those suicides and violent behaviour. Except its doing the opposite. It just makes women the ones who suffer. Cos women are dispensable and mens anger is deemed more of a problem to society than the mental health of women.

OP posts:
MIdgebabe · 04/11/2018 08:40

Women who commit suicide are often victms of domestic violence,men who commit suicide are not in relationships....hum ....Perhaps amnesty want to equalise the suicide rate ( bring the women’s rate up by decreasing the Male rate ) rather than decrease both rates? A rather stupid type of equality , making things bad for everyone.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 04/11/2018 08:55

Amnesty advocate that there is a right to sex?

MIdgebabe · 04/11/2018 09:05

Sex is in the bottom of Maslow hierarchy of needs for humans along with food etc, guess that’s where it comes from

LikeDust · 04/11/2018 09:15

What’s quite sad is that judging by the news photos he was actually an ok looking guy. So his inability to attract women must have been due to his own behaviour.

I think this incel movement is not about being unable to get a relationship, it is more like the cult-like impact of 'The Suffering of Young Werther' upon men.

It seems to be a form of hysterical contagion where the men become wrapped -up, self indulgent and addicted to being in this passionate, frustrated sorrow to the point of feeling suicidal. It's about enjoying passionate male-bonding online and bears absolutely no relationship to failed attempts to relate to women. They would rather whip themselves up into this ridiculous state of 'passionate longing' and post online about it than just admit they are an ordinary dude, no more passionate or heroic than the next one.

WomanOfTime · 04/11/2018 09:17

Sex is in the bottom of Maslow hierarchy of needs for humans along with food etc, guess that’s where it comes from

I remember learning about this theory in school aged 14 and immediately realising how wrong it was. Sex is classified as a 'basic need' along with food, sleep and warmth. The next step up is safety and security. It was utterly bizarre - you'll die without food or sleep. Nobody ever died from not having sex. Not the same category at all.

Budgieinaberet · 04/11/2018 09:20

Yes they do Pale. I saw a chugger who was working for Amnesty, I asked her why Amnesty think prostitution is a good form of employment.
She replied it helps the women access health care.

Amnesty can fuck right off

BlatheringWuther · 04/11/2018 10:11

"mens anger is deemed more of a problem to society"

Nail. Head. Because it is. But it is because society creates that problem. Women are told from birth that they must always be nice, never display anger. Let alone act on it! In men it's permitted, it's indulged, it's even righteous, and acting on it is always seen as fully understandable, even in some cases cause for celebration. Yet women have far more cause.

As for the concept of a male right to sex, that translates directly into male right to female bodies. And the filth encouraging that can FOTTFSOFATFOSM.

JungDisciple · 04/11/2018 10:15

Wow. These men dont even see older women or overweight women or ugly women as women. Women to them means fuckable wimmin. They dont understand or care that women dont get what they want either.

bluetitsaretits · 04/11/2018 10:16

I asked her why Amnesty think prostitution is a good form of employment.
She replied it helps the women access health care
-FFS.

Jutz · 04/11/2018 10:17

Womanoftime - perhaps they did die from not having sex because they killed themselves over it?

BlatheringWuther · 04/11/2018 10:18

If they can see nothing else valuable in life other than their dicks then that is probably why women don't want to know them right there!

RedVelvetLinesTheBlackBox · 04/11/2018 10:26

I've read that article.

He sounds like a lovely man. I can't imagine for a second why no one wanted to become more closely acquainted with him...

PerkingFaintly · 04/11/2018 10:30

I think LikeDust is spot on.

There was an article about someone leaving his incel bubble because he'd finally had exposure to life outside it. Once he stepped away from the constant reinforcement by his "friends", the attraction of incel beliefs did too.

I'll try to find the article.

arranfan · 04/11/2018 10:40

Women are told from birth that they must always be nice, never display anger. Let alone act on it! In men it's permitted, it's indulged, it's even righteous, and acting on it is always seen as fully understandable, even in some cases cause for celebration. Yet women have far more cause.

I liked this piece on that topic.

Why is the less violent gender the one learning all the emotional self regulation?
Because women are expected to regulate the emotions of men as well as themselves. They have to sharpen their emotional regulation skillz because they’ll be regulating for two even when they’re not pregnant. This has been a thing that’s starting to get noticed in feminist circles; the concept of unpaid emotional labor that women are expected to supply. This takes many forms (and I’ve written about this before) and at its most benign looks like listening, support and empathy. However, as it becomes more noxious, women are expected to read the emotions men and proactively protect them from their own negative emotions.

medium.com/@emmalindsay/men-dump-their-anger-into-women-d5b641fa37bc

arranfan · 04/11/2018 10:48

These men dont even see older women or overweight women or ugly women as women. Women to them means fuckable wimmin

They're reinforced in that by media and society in general in some countries so there's little to correct their impression.

Was it Sarah Brown who recently made some bizarre argument about ugly women and toilet facilities in Cambridge?

How many older women do we see as respected participants in mainstream media?

R0wantrees · 04/11/2018 10:58

Catherine Bennett article from Observer Sun 29 Apr 2018

'Violent misogyny is unfortunately not confined to the internet’s ‘incels’
Killers are rare; more commonplace are terrible fantasies of abuse against women'
concludes:
"In the days since the Canadian man murdered 10 people, a good deal of attention, including glossaries of special terms, has focused on the peculiarities of “incel” online behaviour. Here, the standard misogynistic repertoire – “you deserve to be raped”, etc – is ornamented, a bit, with coinages such as femoids. But actually, so what? To many social media users, neither the language nor the sentiments expressed in posts such as the one above, however far along the woman-hating continuum, are likely to look radically out of the ordinary.

Apart from anything, Jack the Ripper, who would now be the toast of angry celibates, had the disembowelling idea 130 years ago. And further demonstrating that misogynistic tropes are by no means the monopoly of resentful male virgins, curators at San Francisco library are currently staging an exhibition featuring a display of dissident-silencing weaponry (axes and bats) and other hate-advertising artefacts.

Photographs of one vitrine, featuring a red bespattered T-shirt reading: “I punch terfs!” (trans-exclusionary radical feminists/women who disagree with me), may have struck a chord with anyone following the current UK debate about the government’s self-ID proposals. To date, threats, from one side, which echo, inescapably, some of those in the pro-Rodger playbook (“die in a fire terf scum”) have yet to generate comparably widespread concern, even after a woman was punched. Her assailant had earlier expressed the wish to “fuck up some terfs”.

For many prominent women, the violence threatened by Rodger fans must sound especially familiar. Caroline Criado-Perez, to whom we owe the new statue of Millicent Fawcett, is just one brilliant woman to have been rewarded, on Twitter, with sexualised menaces (”choke you with my dick” etc), which attracted nowhere near the appalled interest that now surrounds “incels”, as we should surely agree not to call these men, and not only because it implies that involuntary celibacy represents a special condition. It’s often called, for instance, “being single” and is what dating websites were invented for.

To agree to use the lads’ pet terminology, is, moreover, to suggest that something distinguishes them from legions of other threatening men expressing a similar wish to control, punish or just silence women and, critically, in similar language. Such as, to non-compliant sexual targets, “choke on my dick”. A glance at Twitter confirms how generously such abuse has been accommodated, even as the repetitive insults and threats indicate gendered hostility to women in general.

If sexism does not explain how rapidly the language employed against dissenting women (including some trans women) in the UK self-ID debate, degenerated, in some quarters, into generic-sounding obscenities (eg, to unco-operative lesbians, “choke on my ladydick”), perhaps it’s because social media has for so long facilitated the delusion that hate speech, as applied to women, is simply part of the landscape.

The very odiousness of the misogynist language that has become, according (pre-Rodger) to one academic, Emma Alice Jane, “a lingua franca in many sectors of the cybersphere”, may help explain, she argues, why the “ethical and material implications” of this form of hate speech have been so under-studied. Hate speech that persists unchallenged, by both – for their different reasons – reactionaries and progressives, is unlikely, anyway, to be corrected.

Maybe women should skim the Elliot Rodger plan for subjugating their sex, if only to appreciate that, once non-subservient women are expected to live with obscene online threats – and axe exhibitions and punching – at least some elements of his vision have surely been realised."
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/29/violent-misogyny-not-confined-to-internet-incels

R0wantrees · 04/11/2018 11:03

'Nearly every mass killer is a man. We should all be talking more about that'
Gary Younge
Thu 26 Apr 2018
'After the Toronto attack, there should be a debate about toxic masculinity, and the issues of identity and rage that turn so many men towards violence'
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/26/mass-killer-toronto-attack-man-men

R0wantrees · 04/11/2018 11:09

R4 Woman's hour Fri 27 Apr 2018:
'the manosphere', Incel, social media, 'toxic masculinity'
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09zt3qq#play

Refers to an investigation by BBC Trending 14 May 2018
'Inside the Dark World of ‘Incels’

"Last month, ten people were killed in Toronto after a man drove a van into pedestrians. In a Facebook status before the attack, the suspect referred to an "Incel Rebellion”.
It prompted huge attention for a previously little-known internet subculture. "Incel" is short for "involuntarily celibate" and refers to groups of men who feel that they can't enter into sexual relationships. They frequently vent anger against sexually successful men ("Chads") and attractive women ("Stacys"). Incel forums include rants aimed at feminism and women, and some encourage violence."
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3csws6k

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