When will we wake from this nightmare?

[PerverseConverse]

Please tell me we will wake up one day and the trans cult will be officially exposed for the cult it is that is destroying children’s lives? I can’t believe that parents and medical professionals are knowingly and willingly making perfectly healthy children into sub-adults that will never mature properly mentally as haven’t gone through puberty and will never have satisfying sex lives. Never father children or become mothers (biologically), never breastfeed or have that oxytocin flow through them. I feel so sad and angry for these children who are being denied a life where there are options. The choices are being made for them now and as far as we know there is no going back once that brain development is interrupted and disturbed. Why can’t people see how damaging, unethical and immoral it is to do this to our children? When will the madness stop?

'They are men and have been teaching that women have no boundaries and are not entitled to any independent life, business or property since the advent of patriarchy.'

So patriarchy, from it's advent, whenever that was, has supported gay and trans rights?

'Just the other day I read an article about men boycotting women's businesses and burning them at the stake as witches in order to take over their property, to take one random example of patriarchal subjugation of women from rather recent history.'

The last witch to be burnt in the UK was nearly 300 years ago.

Not sure what that has to do with men dressing up as woman, because 'I'M A WOMAN, BIGOT!'.

this Spectator article may make you more hopeful

But I think it goes a lot deeper than the writer says. The misogynists behind the TRA are patient.

@ToeToToe
"Radfems are the ones who have been raising the awareness about this for years now - Julie Bindel and Julie Burchill started writing about it in around 2004."

LGBT had been going for at least 15 years prior to that. Did RadFems, or feminism in general, abandon the LGBT movement as a consequence or did it continue broadly supporting the movement?

What support did the LGBT movement get from the straight 'toxically masculine' patriarchy during the same period of time?

Did you know you can Google stuff. I think a lot of people might not know or be interested in the detailed timeline you seem to be seeking.

If one finds that one keeps accidentally getting fluid on oneself then one option would be to put on one's wellies and otherwise ignore its existence, because stepping right into it is unlikely to be either enjoyable or productive.

I'm sorry if cause-and-effect triggers you.

Actually that's a lie.

That's an interesting article!

‘If you’re not a statistician, let me break those numbers down for you: nobody likes you, including the so-called marginalized groups whose feelings you’ve decided need protecting.’

I think this ties in with what we have been saying on other threads, about how middle class, white people (usually men) have positioned themselves as the voices of oppressed and marginalised groups, claiming to speak on their behalf, but actually using another groups issues to promote their own agenda - and usually make money in the process.

Back on topic - lots of women fell for the "we must be kind and supportive" propaganda, because of all the reasons discussed in the Beryl thread. The good news is that more of us are waking up and realizing what giving TRAs what they want would cost us, and deciding that it's too high a price to pay, both for ourselves and for our daughters/nieces/granddaughters, every day. Have you seen the comments on a lot of tantrumy TRA twitter demands recently, or on any of the articles The Times has run? Most people's patience with the emotional blackmail is wearing very thin.

I think so - regular people who thought it was entirely 'niche' are now finding that it obtrudes onto their life and are now saying, 'srsly, fuk that'

I agree, AAK! It is emotional blackmail, and people not only know it is, but thanks to the internet, can publicly call it out. I can see why it makes them angry, for so very long they had the monopoly on having opinions and no one could realistically disagree with them, or at least not in any public way.

Look at the reaction to MN - women talking, how dare they!?

When my entirely apolitical and not remotely feminist stepmother started muttering resentfully about this stuff, that's when I knew it was filtering into the public consciousness, and not in a positive way.

Straight males of my generation never gave a shit about the being 'kind and supportive' propaganda. Quite the opposite. The latest crop do seem to give a shit, give it time and boys running around in skirts and having 'man periods' will be normalized.

How anyone thinks this benefits the 'patriarchy' fascinates me.

AAK that's interesting. My 80 year old dad is also aware. Guardian subscription and all.

My dad, who's not much younger, has been aware for a while but seemed to think it was a fad that would pass. Now that it may impact children he cares about via schools policy he's paying attention. Stepmother was completely unaware till child visiting them came home from school talking about things she'd been told about "gender" there. And then there was the set of toilets that were "men's" and "all gender".

When a woman who's if anything rather anti-feminist starts complaining about this bollocks being sexist...

My mum too - if she lived in Gilead she'd be a close friend of Serena Joy, but even she can see (to quote her) 'they don't seem to like women very much'.

The last witch to be burnt in the UK was nearly 300 years ago.

300 years is nothing considering the long history of patriarchy. And the point is that men will come up with all kinds of strategies to undermine women, call them property, call them witches, call them TERFs, and then take from them whatever autonomy they had and drown their voices out. Nothing new under the sun, really.

As for whether patriarchy ever supported gay and trans people: It is worth noting that in patriarchy it ain't homosexuality when you are the penetrator. Just ask about how it is viewed across Arab countries, Afghanistan and pretty much every war wherever.

So, patriarchy is totally okay with toxic masculinity in any form, be it some soldier raping a male POW or some aggressive TRA intimidating women or transpeople who do not tow the party line but want to find common ground with women.

In 1978, the Lesbian Organisation of Toronto wrote, in response to a transwoman attempting to join their organisation, “A woman's voice was almost never heard as a woman's voice – it was always filtered through men's voices. So here a guy comes along saying, "I'm going to be a girl now and speak for girls." And we thought, 'No you're not.' A person cannot just join the oppressed by fiat."

Janice Raymond wrote “The Transexual Empire” in 1979.

In 1997, Sheila Jeffries wrote, "the vast majority of transsexuals still subscribe to the traditional stereotype of women" and that by transitioning medically and socially, trans women are "constructing a conservative fantasy of what women should be. They are inventing an essence of womanhood which is deeply insulting and restrictive."

I think you could fairly claim all of these women for radical feminism.

The last witch to be burnt in the UK was nearly 300 years ago.

Marital rape was only made illegal in 1991
Women are still publically humiliated for exposing Male violence (see: recent Belfast rape case where the victim’s top was produced as evidence that she was ‘up for it/a slapper/whatever else a top makes you that means men can assault you.)
Women are still burned as witches in plenty of places (some v unpleasant cases last year in PNG.)
Women assembling to discuss keeping the law as it is have been threatened with rape, physical violence and bombs.

We may not burn witches in the uk, but there seems to be the modern alternatives alive and thriving - women punished for existing in the public space. The entire MRA movement is a backlash against men having to budge up just a tiny little bit and share more. T**Fs are exhorted to die in a fire daily.

So from where I see it, it’s the same disease, just a different manifestation