The reality of self id .

[SirVixofVixHall]

I have just read this thread on twitter and this post horrified me. MP s and others telling us that there is no risk to women, this is what all our single sex spaces will turn into.
I am so angry on behalf of this woman and her daughter.

But that would never happen.

No. No one would ever pretend to be trans and anyway, they know their gender better than YOU.

Well, yes. This is the reality of self id.

I'm really sad that you've shared that hallucination with me because it must be proof that some of this spreads like social contagion through technology.

Because. This. Never. Happens.

And PP is correct. They know their gender better than I do and they'd never ever just be an obnoxious person knowingly causing distress or discomfort to others because they can.

Because. This. Never. Happens.

I’ve had a friend insist that this would never happen , because no one would go the the EXTREME LENGTHS of becoming trans in order to abuse women. When all a man has to do is say the magic word “trans” .

What I would like to respond in that situation would be "That's fine. But you have a male body, and male bodies do not belong in toilets for female bodies."

Would I speak up?

Probably not, because I'd fear a violent reaction.

I once complained to staff at a holiday park about this as younger DD got a bit scared, albeit the man seemed to have long hair and some pink clothing. They said they couldn't do anything unless he actually did something inappropriate, being male doesn't itself allow them to kick someone out.

Probably not, because I'd fear a violent reaction.

I wonder if, in some places and circumstances, we'd also be apprehensive that not only would there not be support from any other women there but they might also turn on us, albeit verbally?

How do you know they were "pretending to be trans?"
It could well be that they were trans. And just wanted to pee.
Did the transwoman actually do anything other than use the loo?

Absolutely Gncq

Every woman and girl's vision of using a safe, comfortable, private bathroom involves accepting that an obvious male in there is probably, hopefully not going to do anything to actually harm or disturb you. Even though the fact he's there, no matter how beautifully he behaves, makes you already uncomfortable and wary as fuck about using the loo yourself (and has forced you to walk out and not pee if your faith, culture or trauma history is inconvenient). That's absolutely what women should be aspiring to. For fucks sake.

Third space, unisex, floor to ceiling provision alongside female only.

Well they certainly don't have gender disphoria if they aren't making any attempt to look like the opposite sex?
Surely this transwomen who looks exactly like a man would feel more comfortable using the men's? Stubble and dirty tracksuit and penis and all?
The Trans umbrella is causing harm. This stuff is bollocks.

Agreed. We need third spaces. Unisex and well designed, alongside single sex provision.

Who is this 'third space' for?

Post-op transexuals, who mostly want to live their lives as discreetly as possible, who have never been barred from/challenged in/evicted from the Ladies' loos? Whom most of us recognise and accept anyway?

Or the rest of the bloody 'umbrella', who are not interested in any third space, because they want the validation, and power, of claiming female spaces?

Quite, SpartacusAutisticus. If there's room for a 'third space' put in an accessible space.

Well my DD best friend is trans, and refuses to use either men's or women's loos.
She (she is biologically female) is terrified.

She uses the disabled loos but I know that pisses off disabled people.

So it would help her.

Third spaces provide everyone with a choice if they prefer not to use the space for their own biological sex, and meet the need for privacy, dignity and feelings of safety for everyone. The lay out of those third spaces yes, great opportunity for making more inclusive provision generally.

Yes, that will not suit the extreme TRA lobby, for a number of reasons. However other people have needs and rights too, and it's about balancing those needs.

Third spaces are a good idea in theory ... but in practice the man in the OP's post, and others like him, would still insist on using the women's. At least us women could then use the third space I suppose.

Gncq 🙄

Proper counselling etc would help your DD’s friend, Kat. Affirming her identity as trans won’t.

Women are safer going into the accessible toilets because they're a separate room. I've bought a radar key in case I have to use one that's locked.

Toilet categories now appear to be:

Male
Accessible/Disabled
Male who chooses to be in there for whatever reason whatsoever

It's a proper radar key.

It could well be that they were trans. And just wanted to pee.
Did the transwoman actually do anything other than use the loo?

Given the person was obviously male and presented as male, in what way did their 'transness' prevent them from using the male facilities? In what way would this obviously male person have been less safe in the men's than any other male? Why would they feel more comfortable in the women's, given they would stand out as different and also probably be able to perceive the discomfort of the women present and potentially risk being challenged?