13 yr old arrested for sex attacks on 9 women

[failingatlife]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46069899

So shocked at this story! My 13 yr old DS is a child! How the fuck have we got to this point?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/england

Clicky

Wrong link! www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46069899

Is this another one of those things that could never happen?

Boys sexually assaulting others at younger ages has been connected to porn use.

We got here because everyone assumes their kid is not a predator and there for can override rights to privacy in girls changing rooms.

We got here because warning signs are ignored and put down to "boys will be boys"

We got here because it's the girls/woman's fault for wearing X Y X.

We got here because everything's someone else's fault. School should have.. nanny should have.... the mum should have...meanwhile while everyone's arguing over who should do what the kid still has access to god knows what on their phone

And we got here because media shows that whatever you do, if you are good at something or valuable to some establishment in some way you get away with it.

Oh and because my kid would never do that ergo everyone is lying.

It's not a thing that could never happen, because sexual assaults by teenagers, including young teenagers are not remotely a recent phenomenon. Indeed, they are only reported when there is an unusual angle, in this case the spate in a short time. Because it's too common to be newsworthy (rather like stabbing s in London very rarely make the news, but one has today because it occurred around the time the afternoon school run yesterday)

Worth noting that the report is of an arrest, not of charges being brought. Though I am assuming there are good grounds to think the offences were carried out by a young teen, or a very baby-faced older teen.

This is, to me, an example of why the age of criminal responsibility should not be raised.

Great post Giles especially the part about getting away with it if your famous etc. What a terrible example we are setting the next generation

God that's horrendous. My DS2 is 14 he's quite the gamer thankfully he's doing a lot more on his PS4 than computer. I do check intermittently what he's up to when online (because privacy). Honestly porn is such a scourge on our society. So many violent criminals have that in their background. I think my boy is doing ok though we had a 1/2 hour discussion on what would be a good birthday gift for a girls party he's invited to.

It's really unfair to blame parents imo. Unless there's documented history of abuse or dysfunctional parenting. What action can really be taken? I think even parents that have concerns would probably be reluctant to seek help, for fear of losing their child.

I was listening to a podcast about James Bulger (sorry I know probably sensitive for you, was sensitive for everyone) but what shocked me was that the boy everybody assumed as the cold hearted leader has 'apparently' been leading a normal life. The other one from the 'better' family (the supposed follower) has had continual offences including child pornography. My point being these boys were subjected to intense investigation by all types of professionals and it looks like things were still missed.

I will also add that children abusing other children can also be a sign of being abused themselves. One day I will share my story of a girl in our old neighbourhood. Not now though as I feel I'm probably already derailing this thread.

It's really unfair to blame parents imo. Unless there's documented history of abuse or dysfunctional parenting. What action can really be taken? I think even parents that have concerns would probably be reluctant to seek help, for fear of losing their child

Who buys the phones? The parents

Who doesn't put settings on to restrict contents? The parents

Who decides to not back up the school when their raise concerns? The parents

Who decides to bring their 9 year old son onto girls changing room? The parents

You don't have be be abusive or intentionally neglectful to be a part of the chain of events that then leads to things like this.

I realise the parents cant be with their older kids 24/7

I realise that at times it honestly feels like you are fighting a losing battle. I have 2 dds I sow d nearly every day trying to counteract the stereotyping and nonsense around them. It's exhausting.

It's not fool proof. Kids will always find a way. Kids will fall victim to peer pressure etc but that should never stop you trying. From the day they are born

I think in most circumstances parebts have to take sone responsibility

The TES article linked in this thread shows boys can be sexually abusive at remarkably young ages:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3364183-To-think-the-DfE-doesnt-care-that-girls-are-being-raped-in-schools

This is not a new phenomenon. It has always happened in our schools and reports of it have been minimised with the, "Boys will be boys" response or victim-blaming.

Chainsaw so true

Of course it's not new. Forty years ago I was running the gauntlet of groping every day on the school bus. At least nowadays it is taken seriously as an offence. That is some progress.

Gileswithachainsaw I agree with you in some respects. But restricted settings? My DS2 got around the schools internet ones in Kindy (rather a skateboarding game than A=Apple). That's why I actually go in check up/have a chat. I'm pretty fortunate I'm home when they get home from school. Not every parent has that privilege.

I tried to limit phones until year 7. Because I would do the school run. Working parents need to have a connection to their kids. Sadly the world is different to when I was younger, where we just roamed until dark.

He's on bail and women are advised to be extra vigilant when out alone? No wonder we have this problem. He's free and women in the area aren't.

www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/crime-court/teenage-boy-13-arrested-sexual-assaults-poplar-e14-east-london-crime-1-5762256

On AIBU the other day there was a poster who got called controlling and overbearing for insisting on having access to her 14 year old’s smart phone.

She was obviously doing the right thing in trying to stop (or limit as much as possible) her son having access to porn, and was being absolutely pasted for it by other MNetters.

People just aren’t getting the link yet.

Just to add 9 year olds in a changing room? Here it's pretty much if your boys are school age they go in the men's. Although they will have had a lecture from mum about yelling for help and kicking any creepers in the balls. Then mum will come in and finish the job. I have many times stood anxiously outside the men's calling out to see if my boys are ok.

You can still do things like check the history.

Tall to your kids

Make sure nothing You say or do gives the wrong message

If you have concerns switch to the old style phones . Ones that have no internet access .

Minimum data contracts
Turn off the Wi-Fi when no one's home they can use the library computers at school.

Make sure your kids know they can tell you anything so they feel they can tell you of they think their friemds are looking at unsuitable stuff.

I'm undecided on how influential some of this stuff is . It may not Have been internet when I was at school but there has always been access to porn. Porn was practically currency at school. Every secret hide out in the woods was littered with porn mags.

Most of us sneaked downstairs and were exposed to things we shoudnt be . I used to sneakily watch horror films I grew up still knowing not to attack people with kitchen knives and chainsaws.

I do think to an extent that if your child is so influenced by watching stuff there is kimda a problem there anyway.

I wonder if the behaviour wasnt excused from toddlerhood. Described as boisterous or "just being friendly " etc , I wonder if all other messages around them were changed, whether porn would have the same effect on them.

I do believe it has an effect obviously what i mean is, if we truly did all we could with everything else whether it would have the hold over them that it does now.

I was ridiculed and called controlling a few weeks ago on MN for checking my 13 year old son’s phone. I knew I wasn’t then, I still know I wasn’t now. I’ll keep parenting.

Every secret hide out in the woods was littered with porn mags.

I think mags are very different to what’s available today. Magazine is a picture- a suggestion. The rest is up to your imagination. Today they can live stream [insert worst type of porn you can think of] and watch it happening. No imagination needed, they’re being fed it all, exactly what they can do to women and how to do it step by step.

Everyone had an older brother with videos too.

I found plenty in my younger brothers room.

It wasnt live stream but there was also no shortage of access to porn.

It seems convenient that's all.

If we can blame something, it makes us feel better. If we have that reason I think it gives us something we can do.

I'm not saying it's not the porn.

I'm saying porn is not the only thing and for every argument about how it's impossible to police their internet usage and check on it, there are lots of things we can do. May be if we do them then they will have the strength and knowledge to reject what they see. To speak up or ask questions etc

Oh I totally agree with you. It’s definitely not just porn. It’s a whole bag of reasons.

I'm saying porn is not the only thing and for every argument about how it's impossible to police their internet usage and check on it, there are lots of things we can do.

If enquiries concentrate on the internet and access to porn it's in danger in making sure such enquiries are meaningless from the outset if the core problem lies elsewhere.

Possibly, toxic masculinity, patriarchy, disdain for some classes - any or all of these.

Hmm, I looked at plenty of porn mags in the woods when I was a teen. Most of it was basically romantic fiction by today's standards.

This is just vile.

'I wonder if the behaviour wasnt excused from toddlerhood'

ABSOLUTELY! I work with under 5s and their parents and I am constantly meeting 2 and 3 year olds who are allowed to rule the flipping roost. No boundaries, no rules, no real reprimand for whacking other children or throwing toys at adults or whatever. A little shrug and a smile. Begging and pleading with the kids, and promising them sweets and shopping trips for bare minimum decent behaviour. Parents who seem to do anything for an easy life in that moment. None of that will magically come right as the child gets older

Too many parents are not capable of actually parenting, and expect the nursery or school to sort everything out