Can I ask you uneducated women for your success story?

[WhiteCoyote]

Because I need inspiration from real life women, perhaps no or little education, who have made it for themselves - paying their own rent or mortgage, relying entirely on themselves financially/supporting their families on their own wage. I'm not talking millionaires, just earning enough to be happy and secure.
I started a thread a while back asking advice as my dp didn't want me to return to work after our son was born, and I had so so many inspirational and helpful replies. It really gave me hope and helped me to realise that I neither wanted to rely on dp financially nor should I have to if I didn't want to.
The problem is I'm struggling to find my way to a well paying job given my complete lack of education. There's plenty of stories of famous women (Oprah Winfrey, Coco Chanel etc) but I honestly can't connect to them.

I'll try to make this as short as possible but I want to give some background;

My mum took me out of school when I was 11. She was suffering from what I thought was post natal depression after giving birth to my two brothers, but looking back now I think she's been depressed my entire childhood. I don't think she was coping too well and needed some support at home, hence taking me out of school. I received no further education even though I begged both my parents on several occasions to go back to school. Neither bothered home schooling me.

I only got my first job at 16 in a kitchen fitting company as my dad was a company director. It's just as well as nowhere would even look at my CV (understandably.) He was a high functioning alcoholic and we had many arguments, he kicked me out at 17.
I went through a couple of shitty relationships, was made redundant from the company and lost the flat I was sharing with an abusive arsehole, ended up going "fuck all this shit" and moved to a completely unknown town 150 miles away (the very short version of my reckoning at the time).

I am now 24 and have a toddler. I work part time in a high street coffee chain, which I love a lot of the time but is really fucking emotionally draining. My manager wants me to come back full time and go into management, but the cost of childcare is more than my wages. Management wages are hardly more than minimum wage, which is why I'm reluctant to do it. Dp and I work on a basis where I work on his days off (shift work). It's hard but it's working at the moment.
My dp has a decently paid job that covers the main bills and some small savings and my job covers the food bills and small things, tv licence, life insurance, phone bill etc. We're getting by but that's it really, we can't get a mortgage and we couldn't afford a holiday abroad. Our landlord had just told us he's thinking of selling our flat - this is the second time in two years this has happened. It will be our 3rd move in 3 years and we're sick of it.

I have an incredibly blessed life (sorry I know mners hate that phrase) now I am grateful for. For what I've been through, I've done ok. We're very privileged. But I don't feel like it's enough - I don't mean materially, but in the way I feel so fucking wasted and want to be a functioning citizen and contribute to society. I love my son but being a mostly stay at home mother horrifies me.
I want to study. I want to learn something new and above all I want to be a proper human again. I want to work in forensics or engineering or something and do something worthwhile - and above all, to provide for my whole family. I want to make a stand for feminism and earn just as much if not more than my dp. I want a mortgage and financial security for us, I want my son to go to whatever the hell Uni he wants to and provide him with every single opportunity.

Without even GCSEs though it looks hard. I'm not saying it to be negative or put a downer on it, but what chances do I really have? I took a quiz on the Open University site about what courses would be suitable for me and my ability, and it suggested that open university courses may not be suitable for me until other basic education is achieved.
I have been doing some of their free courses nonetheless (basic maths and English skills) and it's impossible with a toddler around. I get interrupted every 3 minutes and end up getting nothing done. I get some done when he's napping, but no more than 5 hours a week.
I applied for the free adult learning courses at the local college this time last year, they told me they were already full for the September just gone. I can try again this year and I'm trying to remain positive. I really am.
Even if I get through though, how is it going to work with childcare and utterly random shift patterns and working long hours and no days off? Dp has no family capable of providing childcare and my family are too far away. We need both of our wages currently to stay afloat.

Women who have made it, how did you do it? Please give me some hope and inspiration, because days like this I find myself feeling so angry and trapped. Maybe there's other options I don't know of yet.

whitecoyote I have not got the same story, as I was lucky enough to have a lot of education when younger - I then became pretty ill in my early 20s and spent ten years almost housebound. In my late twenties, I tried to return to study and find a career path that could fit around my health condition and was devastated when I couldn't cope healthwise and had to drop out.

But now, ten years on, I have managed to study again and start a new career (helped a lot by my health getting a bit better). I think what I am trying to say is, even in my mid-late thirties it hasn't been too late (and I had basically never worked). Not easy, but definitely not too late.

Access course. And most (all?) Universities have a scheme where they help applicants from less advantaged backgrounds, so once you are on the access course you can find out about that. I studied as an adult lone parent and it's quite easy to do if you are determined.

I wish I had gone into business for myself. Why don't you consider making props for LARPing? If you are skilled at working with fur you could make a good living making props and costumes for roleplaying weekenders like Empire. They charge an absolute fortune. You already have the skills you need for this and can start making money immediately. If you get more skilled at it, you can then branch out into theatre design.

What about apprenticeships, you can get them up to degree level, although without prior qualifications you may have to start with lower tier apprenticeships. The positive is you are paid whilst you learn.

From personal experience my mum left school at 15 with no qualifications, had children and then took a YTS course (equivalent to apprenticeships now) in her twenties when we were at school. By the end of her career she was a director. She took every opportunity along the way to learn and acquire business based qualifications but still does not have any O levels, GCSEs etc. She just worked harder than those around her in order to achieve

Oh, I've just remembered! Futurelearn have a great Intro to Forensics course here: www.futurelearn.com/courses/introduction-to-forensic-science

I did it a couple of years ago, it's good fun. But as a career, very hard to get into as the govt have slashed funding and closed labs. One to do for interest, really.

Depending on your income, you could be eligible for free childcare hours from when he is 2: www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare-costs/free-childcare-2-year-olds?step-by-step-nav=f237ec8e-e82c-4ffa-8fba-2a88a739783b

You might also get Discretionary Learner Support but you have to apply via the learning provider.

Have you also checked out www.entitledto.co.uk to make sure you’re getting all the help you can more generally?

If you might be interested in construction the maybe get in touch with these people: www.women-into-construction.org/women/

Any chance of your partner moving to something with more predictable shifts?

Don’t give up!

Coming at this from the other side of things, back when I was a lecturer, some of the best students I taught were mature students who'd come in through access courses without formal qualifications. They really knew why they were there, why the course mattered to them, and wanted to learn. (I still have fond memories of one woman graduating, with her daughter, her mum and her grandmum to cheer her on! Four generations of awesome women.)

I'd look into access courses, or possibly doing A levels one at a time (for various complicated reasons my half sister dropped out of formal education aged 16 - but went back and did Scottish highers when she was in her forties, having had three kids - it can be done!)

Engineering sounds a good choice. Are you thinking of it from the trades perspective (as in the sort of engineer who fixes things? - heating systems, cars, etc.), or from a design perspective (e.g. structural, civil, mechanical engineer)? For the latter, I think you would need to do A level maths and physics before undertaking a degree. But there's no reason why you can't do that - you can do them one at a time, through evening classes, which is what my sister did. For the former, it would be more a case of trying to find a reputable firm who'd take you on for a (genuine) apprenticeship.

Check out online courses - some are free others you pay for like Brilliant.org - well worth the money as my DS uses this.

Engineering will need a strong maths and physics background and coding is a useful extra but DON'T get intimidated. I still review the basics and its my career! You are still young and you won't be that unusual as a mature returner.

Don't be afraid of the baby steps - even if they seem too basic you cannot build a bridge without strong foundations.

I think the way to get through the frustration is to have a plan. Having something to look forward to and making steps toward it will bleed off the anger.

If you’re eligible for some free childcare in April 2020, that’s not much more than a year away. If you can get mature age entry into university when you’re 26, that’s 2 years away.

So you could plane on doing preliminary studies, either your secondary qualifications or a university access program from 2020, with the intention of enrolling in university the year after that.

You should definitely contact your closest universities and make a time to go in and see their student advisors and head of faculty of the programs which interest you.

Take your plan with you and discuss what you can do between now and then to make the transition easier.

Even if you can carve out half an hour a day (as your time) to do the Khan academy maths programs, you’ll be stepping toward your goals.

I like the idea of ramping up your taxidermy business or extending into furs. That might be a way of giving you more time and money without the shifts.

I am quite sure you’ll succeed in your goals. Modern education is a product of the Industrial Revolution’s need for a minimally educated workforce. There are many, many women throughout history, who did wonderful things without the benefit of formal education.

Having an education is important now, for career success, but not having it says nothing about your worth or capacity as a woman. Clearly.

I would also lean into your current workplace wanting you to work more and enter management - I think they are more on your side even if you're worried about childcare costs. IF you let them know that there are other aspects as well as childcare you are worried about but am grateful for the opportunity, perhaps ask if you could combine management training with more entry level course. I would see what you can get out of your current job first and in return give it your best shot while you plan ahead.
Days and years.

Plus having management experience before entering the physical sciences will be a BIG advantage - from the academic who sucks at executive function.

I'd not come across Kahn maths before
www.khanacademy.org/math

but it looks quite good - kind of like Duolingo for maths! Completely with the twinkly "well done, you got the question right" noises. Though I think a real-life human teacher would be preferable in an ideal world, but it certainly looks like the sort of thing you could do twenty minutes of here and there while your toddler is asleep.

Let me know if you put yourself in for igcse English Language or
Literature - I’d be happy to distance tutor you for free/point you in the direction you of useful online resources.

I left school with nothing and now have a masters degree, you can do it op if you start with an access course then the ou or part time at a local uni. One of the advantages of doing minimum wage jobs is that the student finance is often more.

coming at it from the other side, too. As a lecturer, I've found motivated older students in a class far above the spring chickens. I've had to try to help students with a million commitments try to prioritize, and, yes, it's very very very hard.

Priority 1: time away from your toddler so you can study. If there is no way to do that until he's 2 or 3, then just make that part of your plan. As in, okay, I can't do that right now, I'll concentrate on him now because that's the best use of time.

Meanwhile, once you do have time, have your steps mapped out. Which access or other course(s) you'll start with and the sequence you'll take them in. Figuring that out is a big job by itself and it's bound to take a few months. So the time isn't wasted even if you're not studying yet.

Priority 2: This is the toughest one. DP sounds well-intentioned, but he is somehow going to have to wrap his head around the concept that being supportive is not the same as having his priorities come first all the time. The real priority is for all three of you to be fed, housed, and happy. When he has to give way a little bit for a big payoff for you down the road, it should be a no-brainer that he does it. He has to be able to think in terms of your goals and to value them. Otherwise, long term, that whole angst thing will just get worse and it'll get real old.

Also, seconding what everyone has said about how literate and articulate you are. If you become an engineer who can actually communicate, the sky is the limit!

I went to university as a single parent when my son was 2.

The first year was hard when he was rolling around my bed demanding attention and I had an essay to write.

By the second year I was being followed round by a 3 year old telling me to turn off the TV because I had an essay to write!

I came out with a first.

You will get loads of advice on here. I just wanted you to know that you can do it

In terms of now you need to get DP to step up with childcare more including working fewer hours to plug the gap. WHen I was working part-time I just about covered childcare but it was worth it as it wasn't that long and my career benefited in that I had kept it going.
In the meantime I would focus on upgrading your hours to earn more - take any training offer while contacting local education providers about cources.

Hopefully DP will be on board but always work with caution. You often only find out who someone really is when you make your ambitions into action or when you achieve something new - There are many who find out their DPs get threatened and are no comrade or ally. Here's hoping that DP is one of the good ones but always have a plan B if not.

WhiteCoyote I'm more of a pragmatist. This might be an unpopular view but here goes: decide what you want to do after studying. Find out how much it pays. I've seen women study for years and years and end up no better off financially. Some degrees are too popular (law, psychology) and some are designed for a very small job market.
Do you want to study for self improvement or to benefit financially? Be clear about this. I'm asking because you've mentioned a few different things you'd like to study, and frankly I'd like to study a few different things but that's not going to pay the bills.
If your partner is supportive that's a good thing, but you mention in his mind bringing in his wages (which pays the main bills) is above all else and I'm inclined to side with him. If his work means you can pay the rent don't jeopardise it. Yes he has to help with childcare while you study - does he want to study or improve his skills too? Maybe you could support each other? What does he do for work now?
My point is to work towards a goal. I would suggest you aim for a salary band, or a type of role, or a level of responsibility. Then work out what you need to do to get there. If it's a degree, great - there's plenty of advice on that here. If not, work out what you need to do. There are companies that look for (maintenance) engineers to train up, in lifts, HVAC, telecoms etc. You could then go into management in the company or field you've trained in. You won't be a chartered engineer but you might end up with a really good salary and marketable skills. You'd have to go in full-time so if your partner earns more than you would as a trainee engineer that option might not work. Companies have got in the habit of poaching trained staff from other companies or from abroad so there aren't as many training schemes as there were years ago, but they still exist. Major retailers have management fast track schemes, pretty sure being part time isn't impossible but you'd probably have to commit to certain hours. You're in the awkward position of having to limit your hours at exactly the point where you need to be chucking everything at a training course. If you want a degree, go for it - just pick it carefully. And bear in mind that many posters here are academics/teachers so they see the benefit in study for study's sake, whereas many of us in other industries work alongside colleagues with far more qualifications, and those with far fewer. Some jobs require specific higher level study but many do not, basically. If you're really not sure take a career preference test to find out what kind of job would suit you (and that you'd enjoy).
If you need more money ASAP and you're not fussed what you do, perhaps work nights in logistics. Once you're experienced there are always trainee management jobs in warehousing, haulage, freight forwarding, etc. Might be a bit grim for your partner and child, though. You'll be on opposite shifts to them!
Feel free to disagree, I know I'll be the minority opinion on this, just my 2p.

Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone!

Acorninspring wow, I'm so sorry you've had such a shit time :( I'm so glad to hear you're getting better and things have improved though.

nellodee that's a good shout, and I have spotted a gap in the market for a popular item that isn't readily available in the UK/EU. The only issue is I'd need a good start up loan and we're talking going down a whole different road there. I feel like I need to pour my energy into either study or taxidermy at the moment and when I look long term, I think I have a better chance of a mortgage with study. Plus there's all the hassle of registering, renting space, legal issues etc.

SilentCrow That is brilliant! Thank you so much for that link, I'm going to really enjoy doing this cracks knuckles

BeerAndBassGuitars at your toddler and huge respect to you

JohnMcCainsDeathStare Dp is probably one of the least egotistical men I've ever met, and I don't think he'd have a problem if I earned more than him. In one of our more voracious arguments we had when I returned to work, he asked me if I could ever earn £350-400 a week like he does. I told him if I did, would he be happy to stay at home 24/7 like he wanted me to - the question did startle him and make him think. While I think he'd be put out as not having the role of provider and protector anymore, I think he's big enough of a person to tell himself to get on with it.
Even so, having a plan B is yet another reason I want to earn more. So I can financially have plan B that won't involve being a single mother on benefits.

He used to be very dinosaur like in his thinking of man=work and woman=home, but has come a very very long way since then, through many arguments that have almost split us up. If we can get through all that shit I don't think me earning more than him will tip the scale any more than it already has been tipped.

Turph You have some very vaild points there and it's definitely given me food for thought.
Ultimately I think the best thing to do is study for the eventual goal of financial security. I mentioned in my op about how we've just been told for the second time in two years we may be turfed out of our (literally perfect for us) flat soon; this is relevant as it's what's really triggered me to go from thinking wistfully about studying to thinking "just get the hell on with it and do it". The landlord has offered us first refusal and the price is low - I'm beyond furious we still can't afford it. It feels like it's right in our grasp but we still just can't manage it. We're going to see a mortgage adviser soon but we did the same last year and got a flat refusal. We both earn a bit more now than then, though.

Dp is 50 and is a bus driver. He's happy plodding along in this job and has no desire to go bigger and better. It's an fairly easy job with great benefits and the pay is above living wage, which is rare as hen's teeth where we are. What's against us for a mortgage is his age, my earnings, our small savings, and the fact we're not married. We're hoping that seeing a different advisor will have different answers this time.

You're absolutely right in saying paying the bills comes before all things, and I do everything I can to work around him and his shifts. He (and you) are right in the fact that looking after our son and keeping a roof over our heads is the most important thing... but 10-20-30 years in the future it will be me looking after dp. I can't see it looking as anything but grim without me finding a pretty damn good job. He has very little pension as he's only been paying into one for 4 years. It also bothers me that if someone were to happen to him or his job, even my earnings going back to work full time wouldn't cover absolutely everything. He's got life insurance through the company if he dies in service and has a savings scheme set up for his family, but there's no other safety net.

I do find myself a Very Angry Feminist these days and sometimes I have put that morally above the logical thing of him working and me staying at home. We could potentially keep going this way until our son reaches school age, but I think a big part of me will die if I have to be the one who stays at home for another 3-4 years - and I'd be ever resentful that my 20's were "wasted" for lack of better phrase. The right answer isn't always clear.

Hello OP,

Firstly, I have really enjoyed reading your posts - you came across as extremely thoughtful, intelligent, articulate and mature.

Secondly, can I echo other PPs in 'pushing' engineering? While I'm not an engineer myself, I do work in STEM and with many engineers, and engineering is a BRILLIANT career.

There is a MAJOR push ATM for apprentice mechanical engineers - perhaps you could look into this? You would probably need to attain some kind of basic maths qualification, but GCSE Maths isn't particularly difficult and you would most likely be able to pass with a relatively respectable grade with six-nine months' study.

If you can't get out to day or evening classes, I believe some courses do now offer remote study online, with supported tutoring via Skype or similar. You're also a good age to access youth development funds (be quick, though, as I think most have a cut-off of 25).

At the risk of sounding horribly patronising (and I really hope I don't!), one of the things that always stands out for me when I read any kind of 'triumph against adversity' story is the number of times people get knocked over but get up again - I think this is key. A lack or a failure is not a 'failure' in itself per se - it's how you respond to it.

I wish you the very best of luck and look forward to your post in 18 months' time telling us about your new job.

There is a MAJOR push ATM for apprentice mechanical engineers - perhaps you could look into this? You would probably need to attain some kind of basic maths qualification, but GCSE Maths isn't particularly difficult and you would most likely be able to pass with a relatively respectable grade with six-nine months' study.
That seems like a great idea. Good luck either way OP.

Just to add to my previous post, why don't you drop these folks a line:

www.imeche.org/

Attitude is everything when it comes to learning and developing, and a good employer will look beyond qualifications or a CV for keenness, aptitude and intelligence, which you seem to have in spades.

The issue with apprenticeship will be the low training wage but tbh I still think it's worthwhile as you have a company investing in YOU and training for a job that is there; rather than the riskier set up of investing in your education yourself (albeit via student loans system) for what you hope may lead to a job, eventually.

The management role at your current work also seems a potential good investment for your future even if it's not lucrative in itself.

Are you interested in nuclear engineering? Particularly fusion power? There is a BIG push for apprentices and its is literally one of the few ways in - either that or be very senior. I would check out UKAEA and if it grabs you feel free to contact me via PM - I don't work for UKAEA but know some contacts who do.

If you can read Janine Allis who set up the very successful Boost Juice bar chain in Australia. I don't she came from as challenging an environment as you - but she certainly achieved a lot thought making her own opportunities.

She's a total workaholic though and I doubt you want to go that far!

But yep you can totally do it.

I'm 42 and just easing myself out of a professional career (lawyer) that I loathed. I want to do something businessy (actually what is the big question) which has nothing to do with my qualifications whatsoever. For sure, I have general skills I can use. But I don't think my skills I've developed for the past 20 whatever years are going to be crucial whatsoever.

Didn't Alan Sugar grow up in a barrow or something?

Totally can be done.

Some brilliant advice on here.

I left school at 15, dropped out of my alevels and have worked up the ladder in a STEM/business type role. Although I started out in a basis admin role, I just made sure I was confident and showed I was willing and able. I have had 8 promotions overall and I even spent a couple of years as an independent contractor (earning hundreds a day). I am 30 now with a DS who is 5, and a fairly senior manager.

You may find that employers will overlook your lack of education if you start in a company at a really junior level and work your way up.

For example if you have been working in a coffee shop, that’s a great example of customer service and working under pressure. Engineering firms need people to answer the phones etc, so try look for roles similar.

Once you are in you will be able to learn lots about the industry, create connections and get some hands on experience.

Many companies will have internal training routes and pay for qualifications whilst you are working for them.

Good luck, you really can do it!