Reverse Racism and TERF as a slur. Help me explain false equiv

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Hello friends, I'm having a debate with a friend about the term TERF and she recently made this comment: " a Transgender Exclusionary Radical Feminists saying that "TERF" is [always] a slur and hate speech -- to me is akin to when white people claim that when Black people and their allies support affirmative action, Black Lives Matter, calling on police not to use of racial profiling, etc. - that this is being 'racist' against white people.

I don't believe that is racist -- because it’s about power. And the lack of it. In this country, for example, white people have power that Black people do not and those of us who are white have privileges (many unearned but privileges just the same) that Black people not only do not but that were gained on the backs of Black slaves. Minorities lack power and authority. Black people CAN be biased against white people and do biased behaviors, but that is not the same as being racist.

Yes, some transgender identified people have made threats and done violence against cisgender people who are (or are perceived to be) Transgender Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERFs) as you shared in your examples above (though I honestly do wonder if they are all real and we will never know) --- and I am not excusing threats and violence by them or anyone else on any level. But saying someone is a "TERF" in and of itself is not a slur or hate speech - because it just means that person is (ascribes to the beliefs of being) a transgender exclusionary radical feminist.
And transgender exclusionary radical feminists have done great harm to transgender women -- emotional harm, psyche harm and physical harm. "

We've actually had a decent discussion but it is exhausting. She is a heterosexual married woman I respect, active in the LGBT community since her gay son committed suicide as a result of bullying many years ago. I'm trying to keep this discussion strictly to the use of TERF that I witnessed on her FB page. She posted a lovely video of Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie (sp?) One of her friends commented "she's a known terf" then another "not very smart" My friend said she didn't know that, then agreed:not very smart. So 2 days later, she makes this condescending comment to me. I'm really trying to be diplomatic. Can you help me break it down that reverse racism is not relevant here? Thank you. so much

The slur 'TERF' is used against people who already have less social power, who already face discrimination: women, often lesbians, often older, poor, disabled, voiceless, etc.

The people using the slur 'TERF' are often male (some who identify as women), straight (some who identify as 'queer'/LGBT), often wealthy and connected.

The slur 'TERF' is a way of (men) punching down at the oppressed (women) whilst claiming to be punching upwards against so -called 'cis'.

This tactic has been deliberately deployed by the dominant group (antifeminist males) to reverse and thwart changes to the status quo which enable women's equality, by attacking the very group who fight to bring those changes (radical feminists).

Like Dust
Thank you!

You could link to this website to show how the word makes it easy to dehumanise women and how it is used in the same way as other sexist and racist slurs:

terfisaslur.com/

It's very rarely used in a neutral way, and is almost always accompanied by disdain (at minimum) and often violent rhetoric. It's incredibly 'othering'.
It's usually aimed at women by people born male, and often for nothing other than her disagreeing or saying something they didn't like. It's definitely not reserved for transphobia, but rather any woman who says something the user doesn't like.
Very few of the people its aimed at consider themselves terfs and most find it insulting.
Once that label is slapped on, it then 'justifies' the gendered abuse that tends to accompany it.
It pretty much meets every definition of a slur.

But saying someone is a "TERF" in and of itself is not a slur or hate speech - because it just means that person is (ascribes to the beliefs of being) a transgender exclusionary radical feminist.

I think this is a huge part of it. I'd say the vast majority of people called terfs do not ascribe to the beliefs that 'terf' implies.
Stuff like not wanting trans people exist. I have never seen a gender critical or radical feminist say this. I've seen the accusation thrown constantly though.
It's all about othering, and accusing ordinary people of being monsters so that their own positions can be justified.
I came across the attached screenshot a few days ago. Replace 'terf' with any other group and anyone else would immediately recognise it as hate speech.

I agree with all this analysis. But I find it helpful to think of the word “TERF” as equivalent to “heretic” or “blasphemer”

It’s intended to be shouted and it’s intended to silence.

On racism, one ought to think of it as if, for example, an analogy

Say, white and black people have separate water fountains - white people had the privilege and power under segregation and apartheid to enforce this

Say, there was one water fountain for every five white people, one water fountain for every 200 black people

'Trans rights activism/extremism' is not the black person trying to use the white person's water fountain (the comparison with Black Lives Matter)

It's the white person with privilege and many more water fountains to chose from, deciding to use the black person's water fountain while 200 less powerful and subjugated black people wait in line. The appropriation of discrimination against black people by transactivists is disgusting and racist. They do it because they can't make their own case, same reason they appropriate intersex conditions, infertility, menopausal women, etc. Because they don't have their own case.

Also tell her that terf is not accurate - trans people are included but males are not. So as it's inaccurate, it's definitely a slur and abusive.

She's got the groups mixed up over who is in power. In her terrible and racist appropriative analogy, she compares trans people to black people and women to white people. In fact we are largely talking about male-bodied trans people, who can be more properly compared to the white cohort in her racist analogy, while women are the oppressed people, more properly compared to the black cohort in her terrible and racist analogy.

Or just tell her it's racist to appropriate the fight against racism. Tell you you'll give her the benefit of the doubt this time but ask her not to do it again.

I ferl so sad for her, losing her boy.

I think a big part of the problem is the claim that transgender people lose out in a power imbalance with others and so deserve to have additional privileges. The root of this claim are the suicide statistics and average lifespan. I think every time these statistics are said they need to be challenged as it knocks the central plank of their argument. However there will be instances where transgender people are discriminated against and these need to be challenged and most people on here would agree that needs to be addressed although they differ in how that should be achieved. It is the positioning of transgender people as being the most oppressed and so everyone else should just automatically shut up and budge up.

I’d missed the bit about her son - my sympathies that is terrible to come to terms with.

I would query what actual damage t*s have done - they haven’t they just don’t agree that women’s spaces should be opened up.

Many people who are considered terfs, aren't radical, or feminist. 82% of the population who don't think transwomen are women would be terfs.

If they were all radical feminists, we could just pack up and go home.

And yes, comparing it to racism is making women the oppressors. Trying to keep convicted rapists out of female prisons, and men away from women's sport is not an indication that women have all the power.

Ask her to actually describe women's power in all this. Get down to the nitty gritty. Because maintaining sex segregation is not an indication that women have power. It's indication that they are vulnerable.

I ferl so sad for her, losing her boy.

And yes. Terrible. Little wonder you are finding the conversation difficult. I might be tempted not to have it.

People who say TERF is just factual or descriptive are like ppl who say the word n....r is just descriptive.

It's not a term anyone would use to describe themself, it's almost exclusively aimed at women, it's used to dehumanise people with a particular view and many people who are called "terf" are most definitely not radical feminists such as Katy Hopkins.

I second Kesstrel in linking to
Terfisaslur.com

Or just tell her it's racist to appropriate the fight against racism. Tell you you'll give her the benefit of the doubt this time but ask her not to do it again

YY

It is the positioning of transgender people as being the most oppressed and so everyone else should just automatically shut up and budge up.

Remember, no one is extracting labour from transpeople.

What low-status, hard, relentless menial work do so called 'cis' people get so called 'trans' people to do for free and without recognition?

Oh that's right. None.

Likedust - could you explain I don’t understand? I’m referring to spaces - prisons, changing rooms, sports, women only spaces.

I think she is a lost cause because trans issues are mixed up in her mind with the terrible thing that happened to her son. You may lose her friendship if you push her.

It's completely inaccurate. I am not 'trans exclusionary'. I am penis exclusionary in certain circumstances, i.e. when a female is naked or vulnerable, in sports etc.

I am also not a radical feminist.

I agree with it being the equivalent of 'heretic'.

Or simply, a bitch who won't do as she's told

It is absolutely, a term of abuse and is used as one

Your friend isn’t comparing like with like.

Women have been excluded from education and government despite being a majority because there are clear unavoidable consequences to being born female. Women can only participate fully in societies where they have access to birth control and where the law prevents men from dominating them physically. Identity is irrelevant.

The differences between races are only cosmetic. That isn’t true of the differences between men and women.

‘TERF’ is a way of silencing dissent , because it presents occasional exclusion of men as exclusion of trans people and targets hate at ‘radical feminists’ as though only they are concerned about this issue.

Having said that I think TERF is more about stupidity than hate.

CallingDannyBoy

Transpeople claim to be "opressed" but a Marxist or "actual" definition of opressed is not the same as the trans ideology version of opressed.
Trans ideologists cry "opressed" when they have been misgendered, or refused entry into a female-only space, or turned down by a prospective sexual partner because of their sex.
That's not what opressed is.

That terfisaslur website is horrifying. I’ve seen it linked to before, but never read it. Definitely show that to your friend OP. It speaks for itself.

^ in one word, slavery.

Gncq thank you that makes sense

If transgender people were fighting for rights as transgender people, they might have a point. But they aren't. They are fighting to colonise other people's rights and they are using institutional support to achieve that.

could you explain I don’t understand?

The inequality between women and men and Afro-American/Afro-Caribbean people and white Europeans are both underscored by exploited labour.

Women do the overwhelming majority of the world's catering, cleaning, caring and clerical work, mostly unpaid. This has enabled men the time and opportunity to get into the most well-paid and powerful positions in society, positions that women struggle to enter because of both the discrimination women face and all the unpaid work women are tied up on being responsible for. Women also suffer physical and psychological abuse, discrimination before the law and a lack of a political voice, as both a result of, and as a way of maintaining, women's low-status position in societies around the world.

Likewise 'racial' inequality has been similarly fostered.

However, not all oppressions are alike. Gay men have been able to hide their sexuality and get into all the most powerful positions in society at the same rate their straight brothers - because you can't see someone is gay by looking at them like you can see someone is a woman or brown-skinned.

Gay and lesbian people are persecuted around the world, subjected to appalling violence and social ostracisation if they 'come out' or are 'found out' and are often hated by the same people who hate people with brown skin or women. But this axis of oppression is different. Straight people are not bearing down on gay men and lesbian women, getting them to do societies necessary donkey work.

Likewise the so-called 'oppression' that transpeople is not the same either.

Going into prostitution increases the danger of violence targeted at homosexuals and people who are gender non-conforming. TransActivists take this demographic who are at great risk of harm (those in prostitution) to represent all transpeople.