The homophobia of trans ideology.

[Uterusowner]

My DD has informed me there are 2 boys in her year, she's at an all girls school. Further questioning revealed the obvious and it's 2 girls transitioning, they're on tablets, binding breasts etc. My DD said they are both obvious lesbians.

So how the hell has someone persuaded 2 16 year old girls that if you're attracted to other girls you are in fact a bloke. Why are they not being encouraged to be comfortable in their own skin, why are they not being encouraged to appreciate what they are. What's wrong with being a lesbian?

I feel very sad when I think of what their futures will be.

Really? You don't think it's like a lot of posts on MN, an occurrence from real life sets off a chain of thinking that involves something recognizable in a wider context?

My eldest DD knows of at least one transmasculine schoolfriend who was quite openly attracted to girls before coming out as transgender. It's not an uncommon testimony. There are some very, very weird things going on with young transmasculine people - girls who were straight in orientation 'presenting' as young gay men, and young women who are naturally butches facing a barrage of homophobic nonsense. One of my daughters is gay and, tbf, quite young, and has told me that she feels it's necessary to be more girly than she always feels 'just so I don't get confused for bring trans'.

There should be no confusion. Being attracted to your own sex shouldn't be an indication in any way that you are in the 'wrong body' etc.

Don't be so disingeneous, florarlbunting. It;s the conflation of "my Dd believes they are gay" with:

" how the hell has someone persuaded 2 16 year old girls that if you're attracted to other girls you are in fact a bloke"

And stating as fact that they take tablets, but actually it's not really a statement, just a thing in someone's head. A feeling, maybe...

"a feeling that they take tablets, with no evidence base to back that up, and this must mean that...."

I'm not being disingenuous, I'm genuinely not seeing your point. I don't think the OP is suggesting the sexuality of the girls is the only element involved, but that it is significant in many cases.

Have you read the Mermaids testimonials and quite a few others where religious and conservative minded parents had an issue with their child being gay but once the 'trans' thing appeared it was all acceptable again?

FloralBunting I'm not sure why you're tying to sell the overall GC argument to me when it's the OP's tenuous grip on evidencing the allgeged statements of facts she mad that I have issue with?

Ok. You clearly have an issue here that I am just not seeing. I took my lead in posting from the thread title and the general topic of homophobia inherent in much of the trans movement. If you'd prefer to dissect the particulars of the OP then I shall leave you to it.

Thank you, Floralbunting.

I thought it was pretty generally accepted to discuss the contents of a thread as opposed to simply a title.

I take as my starting point the OP's assertion that 2 16 year olds have been persuaded that they are trans.

This is (genuinely, not point scoringly, alarming to me).

This is such a bizarre reading of the thread. Why is it remarkable that someone would phrase it like that? You think these Genderist ideas just popped up in these 16 yo's heads without persuasion or input from outside? What on earth are you trying to say here?

It's clear as mud to me, Floral. All I'm getting is the sense that a bunfight may be impending.

AAK, thank goodness it's not just me. I'm really quite baffled at what the issue is here.

Nope. I well understand that these pressures are there.

I just took issue with the statements that we were all supposed to swallow, which were:

"Further questioning revealed the obvious and it's 2 girls transitioning, they're on tablets, binding breasts etc. My DD said they are both obvious lesbians.

Then the OP goes on to say oooh, maybe they;re on recreational drugs and this stuff is only a "fact" because my teenager say so.

Just use fact to back up what you say.

Not randomers who "disclose" stuff but then can't and then say,, oooooooh trolll when asked to elaborate.

Have a debate, by all means, about homophobia in transgender ideology. Just maybe consider that people who talk about "tablets" etc may not be very informed.

I'm baffled too, FloralBunting. So that's three of us.

4 prawn

Riiight. So you're suggesting that the OP is not as well informed about the specifics of trans medications as you'd like. I think that is probably the case for a lot of people who still have reasonable pause about a movement hoovering up young gay people at an alarming rate. Or are you suggesting the OP is a troll yourself?

It's an interesting method of approach you have, but I'm not sure you're making a laser-focused point here.

5 prawn

... 6 potato, 7 potato, more!

Don't know why I feel compelled to post that.

Probably a side effect of being baffled. Or tired.

If the "for each person commenting there are 10 who thought the same but didn't say" rule applies there are at least 150 people scratching their heads and wondering what Bang is getting at.

50, rather. I can do maths, honest.

It seems to me that bangandthedirtisgon is questioning the rather glib determination made by the OP of what is going on in these children's lives based on the possibly not terribly reliable information passed on by the OP's daughter.

Have a debate, by all means, about homophobia in transgender ideology. Just maybe consider that people who talk about "tablets" etc may not be very informed

I'm not clear what is so unclear about what bangandthedirtisgon is saying.

Hmmm. When someone is immediately threatened by what a gc person is saying, I have to wonder why.

What exactly is so threatening to them in this thread?

A study published last month on ROGD—one that gained widespread media attention for infuriating transgender activists—found that a large proportion of these girls had come out as lesbian or bisexual prior to coming out as transgender.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330

There were 256 parent-completed surveys that met study criteria. The adolescent and young adult (AYA) children described were predominantly female sex at birth (82.8%) with a mean age of 16.4 years. Forty-one percent of the AYAs had expressed a non-heterosexual sexual orientation before identifying as transgender. Many (62.5%) of the AYAs had been diagnosed with at least one mental health disorder or neurodevelopmental disability prior to the onset of their gender dysphoria (range of the number of pre-existing diagnoses 0–7). In 36.8% of the friendship groups described, the majority of the members became transgender-identified. The most likely outcomes were that AYA mental well-being and parent-child relationships became worse since AYAs “came out”. AYAs expressed a range of behaviors that included: expressing distrust of non-transgender people (22.7%); stopping spending time with non-transgender friends (25.0%); trying to isolate themselves from their families (49.4%), and only trusting information about gender dysphoria from transgender sources (46.6%).
Conclusion

Rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) describes a phenomenon where the development of gender dysphoria is observed to begin suddenly during or after puberty in an adolescent or young adult who would not have met criteria for gender dysphoria in childhood. ROGD appears to represent an entity that is distinct from the gender dysphoria observed in individuals who have previously been described as transgender. The worsening of mental well-being and parent-child relationships and behaviors that isolate AYAs from their parents, families, non-transgender friends and mainstream sources of information are particularly concerning. More research is needed to better understand this phenomenon, its implications and scope.

Interesting, thank you. Seems to support the theory of homophobia driving a significant percentage of female-to-trans. (I found that through one of the links left in this thread. quillette.com/2018/10/23/the-unspoken-homophobia-propelling-the-transgender-movement-in-children/)

questioning the rather glib determination made by the OP of what is going on in these children's lives based on the possibly not terribly reliable information passed on by the OP's daughter

Is that not the whole of mumsnet?

I understand the point bang is making, I just don’t understand why. Of course the OP is not going to have data to back up the specifics of what she is saying, it’s anecdotal. Does that mean we should only discuss topics or use examples from real life when we have specific data or statistics to evidence what we’re saying?

I understand the pointbangis making, I just don’t understand why. Of course the OP is not going to have data to back up the specifics of what she is saying, it’s anecdotal

The OP's posts , including that these children are lesbians taking "tablets" based on nothing more than what her teenage daughter has told her have accepted without question.

Does that mean we should only discuss topics or use examples from real life when we have specific data or statistics to evidence what we’re saying?

That's ironic given how often I've seen "anecdote is not data" trotted out on here when a poster's anecdote doesn't fit the majority concensus.

bangandthedirtisgon never said anything about not discussing the subject generally. I took her point to mean no more than a bit of objectivity might not go amiss.