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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Recording crimes in the correct sex

42 replies

Bowlofbabelfish · 28/10/2018 04:59

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6324851/Transgender-paedophile-treated-woman-crimes-committed-man.html

Mail tackles the concept of incorrect crime stats.

OP posts:

Velella · 28/10/2018 05:24

"Police and courts have been accused of pandering to a transgender paedophile by treating him as a woman for crimes he committed when a man."

He is still a man. I'm glad to see this issue highlighted but it plays to the idea that he has changed sex since and that is phsically impossible.

They need to say something like 'crimes committed before he started identifying as a transwoman'.

TheCountryGirl · 28/10/2018 06:53

I was very happy to see this highlighted this morning in the Mail. They are turning out to be fantastic reporters of all this evil crap.

JellySlice · 28/10/2018 07:02

Last night, Hertfordshire Police said: ‘As per national guidelines, a trans person’s Police National Computer file will have them recorded as the gender they were at birth unless they are in possession of a gender reassignment certificate. These guidelines would also be followed when recording crime.’

So they will record crime accurately only if the criminal does not have GRC, but inaccurately if the criminal has a GRC. The law - or their interpretation of it - supports distortion of truth. Surely this is precisely one of the situations for which the exemptions in the EA are intended?!

JellySlice · 28/10/2018 07:07

The headline:

This transgender paedophile sexually assaulted a child while identifying as a MAN and is locked up in a MALE prison... so why do police insist on saying his crimes were committed by a WOMAN?

Why does the headline use 'identifying' in this context, but not when referring to his current 'status'?

Gentlygently · 28/10/2018 07:12

That article is interesting. I wonder what the victim referrred to her attacker as in court? I am very worried about this as the guidance for judges is silent on how to deal with this specific point.

And how on earth can Hertfordshire police come out with that statement after publishing the whole article referring to ‘woman’ throughout? They seem to be saying ‘not to worry, officially it will be recorded as a crime by a man’ in which case why on earth did they say ‘a woman has been convicted’!!!

Floisme · 28/10/2018 07:14

This really scares me. If we get to a stage when we can no longer point out male violence then we will be in deep shit.

TheCountryGirl · 28/10/2018 07:20

I just hope people see what is going on...this looks like a deliberate ploy to make it appear women are as violent and depraved as men and is driven by the police. Their aim seems to be to play down male violence and imply that women are just as depraved so we deserve whatever we get.

TheCountryGirl · 28/10/2018 07:21

Its not a perfect article by any means but any light shone on this is good.

Sarahjconnor · 28/10/2018 08:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ijustwannadance · 28/10/2018 08:41

And the government want to make it simple for any man to get a GRC.

charlestonchaplin · 28/10/2018 08:47

Today 07:12 Gentlygently

That article is interesting. I wonder what the victim referrred to her attacker as in court?

I'm not sure whether you are aware that Maria Maclachlan, the feminist assaulted by the transwoman Tara Wolf at Speaker's Corner was admonished by the judge for referring to Wolf as 'he' and directed to use the pronoun 'she'.

ijustwannadance · 28/10/2018 08:47

"Prosecutors said White, who was formerly known as David Thompson, used the gender transitioning process as way to get access to vulnerable victims"

Never happens though, eh

placemats · 28/10/2018 09:32

Last night, Hertfordshire Police said: ‘As per national guidelines, a trans person’s Police National Computer file will have them recorded as the gender they were at birth unless they are in possession of a gender reassignment certificate^.

A baby has sex recorded at birth, not gender.

Whatyearisit · 28/10/2018 09:52

This really scares me. If we get to a stage when we can no longer point out male violence then we will be in deep shit.

This.This This

The more I think about the total disregard for biological reality the more I despair. Allowing male bodied people to be recorded as female bodied people destroys the welfare of women.

Popchyk · 28/10/2018 10:50

Last night, Hertfordshire Police said: ‘As per national guidelines, a trans person’s Police National Computer file will have them recorded as the gender they were at birth unless they are in possession of a gender reassignment certificate.'

And yet Hertfordshire Police posted this article referring to Cooper as a woman. And no mention of Cooper being either a man or transgender or reference to previous crimes.

So the question is does Cooper have a GRC or not?

If not, why are Hertfordshire police referring to Cooper as a woman?

If Cooper does have a GRC, then why is Cooper in a male prison? And did the GRC panel know about this person's existing criminal record and pending charges when they issued it?

charlestonchaplin · 28/10/2018 10:56

The press generally use self-ID to report gender Popchyk. I very much doubt Cooper has a GRC.

Popchyk · 28/10/2018 11:04

Hertfordshire Constabulary are not the press though.

If he escaped from custody, would they say "We are looking for a woman who may be dangerous. Carrie is 52, white and 5 foot 10 inches tall. Be on the lookout".

And expect the public to be able to identify him from that description?

FekkoThePenguin · 28/10/2018 11:10

A trans woman was recently murdered by a lowlife.

No one ever suggested for a minute that the victim was a 'women' it was alway very clearly stated that the victim was a trans woman, or 'Fred who went by the name of Mary'.

No outcry apart from transactuvists who went to great lengths to point out that the victim was indeed trans as it suited their narrative of transpeople being in danger, although from what I remember the poor victim was working as a prostitute (who definately are at high risk of violence). Plus the murdered was a man. Not a woman.

charlestonchaplin · 28/10/2018 11:17

You're right Popchyk. I thought you were referring to the press article. I missed the fact you were referring to a statement by the police.

Shockers · 28/10/2018 11:18

He was tried and convicted as a woman. I know he has previously been in Parkhurst, but I thought he’d be in a women’s prison now because he was referred to as a woman in court.

I do not agree btw; I think that if you use your male body to sexually assault someone, then you should be tried and punished as a male.

Is he in a male prison?

JellySlice · 28/10/2018 11:28

If he escaped from custody, would they say "We are looking for a woman who may be dangerous. Carrie is 52, white and 5 foot 10 inches tall. Be on the lookout".

Yes. Exactly this happened earlier this year. Unfortunately I cannot recall enough details to google it. Was discussed here on MN.

OrchidInTheSun · 28/10/2018 11:42

It was last year. The police issued a photo saying that Lisa Hauxwell may be dressed as a man.

Hauxwell was wanted for rape.

www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/594156/Transgender-rapist-police-male-female-mugshots-Darlington

Popchyk · 28/10/2018 11:57

His conversion to "woman" happened in the short period of a month (between being on trial for his first offences of the sexual abuse of children and just before being sentenced).

Stephanie Mottershead is the case of a man who stabbed another man. There was a year between the charges being brought and the trial taking place. Mottershead had claimed that they had just started to transition before the trial. Been in and out of men's prisons before for violent offences of course.

I think we'll be a lot of sudden conversions to womanhood between charges being brought and court appearances from now on.

Original poster

Bowlofbabelfish · 28/10/2018 12:13

If a GRC allows the recording of crime in the wrong sex, we have a problem. We have apparently 5000 holders in the country? And already how many rapes have been recorded as being by women when they are not (women can only be convicted of rape as accessory and that has been vanishingly rare.)

Allowing anyone to self declare and gain a GRC will have a serious impact on crime stats.

It would be interesting to start collating the effect of this NOW as its happening- this is valuable data and its easier to get as it happens rather than retrospectively. That is something I would support a crowdfunder for.

The more examples like this I see the more I feel this is a concerted attack on the very frameworks of society that protect women and children

OP posts:

theOtherPamAyres · 29/10/2018 09:52

Two points arise from the Statement from Hertfordshire Police

(1) The "national guidelines" were written by a sub-committee of the National Police Chiefs.
Who advised them?
What training had they had?
Who provided it?

(2) There is extraordinary trust placed in the panel that approves Gender Recognition Certificates.
How do we know that the decisions are sound, in every case?

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