Jewish Chronicle "We don’t want LGBT+ students in our schools, leading Charedi rabbi tells Chief Rabbi"

[Rumbledore]

Rabbi says "Although the British government was demanding these children be treated with respect, “we cannot have regard to non-Jewish laws that contravene our holy religion.”
www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/we-don-t-want-lgbt-students-in-our-schools-leading-charedi-rabbi-tells-chief-rabbi-1.471563

Ooh, that's a can o' worms and no mistake.

I doubt that Rabbi Sternbuch would find much traction among British communities or the educational system.

A prominent Israeli Charedi rabbi has attacked Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis for his guidance on LGBT+ relationships and also criticised the reaction from other strictly Orthodox rabbis {in the UK} as not strong enough.

Rabbi Mirvis’s guidance to schools on their duty of care towards LGBT+ pupils, published shortly before Rosh Hashanah, was considered the first of its type in the Orthodox world.

In response, a number of strictly Orthodox rabbis from London, Manchester and Gateshead issued a statement agreeing that children should not be bullied in school because of their “inclinations”.

And there it is... the thing TRAs relied on never happening!

Religion vs Gender Identity

I know who I'd put my money on. Hopefully more will arrive, Christian, Muslim, Quaker, JW etc etc. Let the world see how the TWAW cant does when up against organised religion rather than just us right wing vicious vagina havers!

I foresee a lot of big boys simply running away!

Religion has never been a happy bedfellow with LGBT. They've been tested with repeal of Section 28, equal marriage, now trans lobby. They won't lie down on this either. I'm waiting for the big challenges.

For the record I supported repeal of S28 and introducing equal marriage with the same passion as we're opposing the trans ideology, as I suspect many feminists had.

The Quakers, and many other Christians, will have nothing to do with that sort of homophobia and transphobia.

Religions asserting their beliefs versus the transgenderists dogma - fair enough. The implication that some want to exclude gay or GNC children from their schools is horrible - but then again, those kids (and all others imo) would be better off with secular schooling anyway.

There was a court ruling about a trans person and their children a while back. The court controversially ruled it wasn't in the best interest of the children for the parent to have access because the children came from an ultra orthodox community and it would have lead to them being ex-communicated.

I think it was a jewish community.

I'll see if I can find something about it.

The implication that some want to exclude gay or GNC children from their schools is horrible Yes, but that is what some religions do! They are not modernised, they are unreconstructed and if it ain't in the holy text of choice, it doesn't exit and won't be tolerated!

Nonetheless religion is a protected characteristic and when social mores and developing freedoms come into conflict with any religion there will be fireworks, lots of shouting, lots of nastiness and bigotry, usually from all sides involved.

Like you (I am assuming), Errol I don't 'do' religion at all, but can still see where the conflicts are and what is most likely to happen.

www.independent.co.uk/news/jewish-children-stopped-from-seeing-their-transgender-parent-a7553431.html
Transgender woman stopped from seeing children because it is 'incompatible' with their Jewish faith

Exclusive: the parent believes she is the first transgender person to have left the ultra-orthodox Charedi community

Its an interesting ruling (not necessarily one I agree with in principle, though I understand its exceptionally difficult situation in practice that does need to be given careful consideration), which demonstrates there are competing rights here and the trans people's isn't necessarily the most important.

I wouldn't have thought they'd exclude gay children. But I can see how they wouldn't want sexually active children of any persuasion. Talking off the top of my head here, just thinking back to Catholic schools' viewpoint. A lot of parents don't want their children to go to schools with a religious ethos, but other parents do and are entitled to. And if you're a parent who's sent your child to a school of a particular religion you probably don't want your child exposed to any kind of sexual shenanigans - hetero, gay or trans - until they're older.

The Quakers, and many other Christians, will have nothing to do with that sort of homophobia and transphobia.

Equally, Liberal and Reform Judaism will have nothing to do with it. The Charedi Jews are the stricted ultra-orthodox grouping.

The senior rabbi of the Reform movement Laura Janner-Klausner has been making pro-trans statements lately www.thejc.com/comment/comment/rabbi-laura-janner-klausner-transgender-child-1.470865

Liberal Judaism does a lot of LGBTstuff www.liberaljudaism.org/what-we-do/lgbtqi-projects

*strictest ultra-orthodox grouping

Why religion has no place in schools really. As much as I'm against trans ideology I couldn't get behind discriminating against lgbt children (although I'd still insist on single sex spaces).

• Nonetheless religion is a protected characteristic and when social mores and developing freedoms come into conflict with any religion there will be fireworks, lots of shouting, lots of nastiness and bigotry, usually from all sides involved.

In past cases of competing rights, generally the judgements in recent years have been to prioritise those based on inherent characteristics (eg being gay, race) or physical (disability) over belief (e.g religion).

This will make the resolution conflict between transgender people and others interesting. Self-ID positions trans more as a belief. Having a proper diagnosis of dysphoria pushes towards the inherent or physical characteristic.

If you've had contact with any orthodox or fundamentalist religion in the UK, its damn scary how members are controlled. Most people don't because they will avoid contact with others outside their world as far as possible. I've worked with a few Brethren in the past (which is unusual in itself). Utterly terrifying how they work and the social hierarchy. I believe the Charedi are not dissimilar.

This is worth a read.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ultra-orthodox-jews-launch-million-pound-fundraising-campaign-to-fight-converts-child-custody-cases-a7190281.html
Ultra-Orthodox Jews launch million-pound fundraising bid to stop children living with 'irreligious parents'

'It's a scare tactic. It says, If you leave we have all the money power and resources to fight you and ensure your children stay within the community are alienated from you'

They are fanatics with lots of money though. They will be litigious if they feel they need to be.

Just for the record, the Court of Appeal overturned the decision about the Jewish parent that RedToothBrush linked to, and said in effect that the religious community had to rethink its values;

www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed184413

Ah, interesting.

So there is already going to be anxiety and hostility within that particular community.

The stuff in the JC is pretty unsurprising them.

It's a cheradi school that has been criticised for having entry requirements that included the length of the wig a child's mother wore and would not allow entry if a parent used the internet, even for work.

Member of highly conservative religion states that LGBQT people aren’t welcomed by said religion. Shock horror.

They don't like women driving the kids to school either.

Religion is a protected characteristic and when social mores and developing freedoms come into conflict with any religion there will be fireworks, lots of shouting, lots of nastiness and bigotry, usually from all sides involved.

I guess TRA's will be looking for screenshots that will enable them to say that GC MN'ers are motivated by religious bigotry.

How horrible

This will make the resolution conflict between transgender people and others interesting. Self-ID positions trans more as a belief. Having a proper diagnosis of dysphoria pushes towards the inherent or physical characteristic. Ooh! That's true! More confounding, confusing, shoutiness to come!

They are fanatics with lots of money though. They will be litigious if they feel they need to be. Yes, more entrenched, more divisive and no nearer to any common sense resolution, no matter how loud any of the shouting!

I guess TRA's will be looking for screenshots that will enable them to say that GC MN'ers are motivated by religious bigotry. Good luck with that! I am polite enough to acknowledge another belief, in a god or in a trans gender feeling. But I no more accept a god as a real thing than I do that TWAW!

The difference is that, in the UK, people with religion don't demand I turn my life, science and general common sense upside down to accommodate them! That and if I say "No, there is no such thing as a god" I don't get arrested for a hate crime!

"I wouldn't have thought they'd exclude gay children. But I can see how they wouldn't want sexually active children of any persuasion. Talking off the top of my head here, just thinking back to Catholic schools' viewpoint. A lot of parents don't want their children to go to schools with a religious ethos, but other parents do and are entitled to. And if you're a parent who's sent your child to a school of a particular religion you probably don't want your child exposed to any kind of sexual shenanigans - hetero, gay or trans - until they're older."

Just because a kid is gay doesn't mean they're sexually active.