Jewish Chronicle "We don’t want LGBT+ students in our schools, leading Charedi rabbi tells Chief Rabbi"

[Rumbledore]

Rabbi says "Although the British government was demanding these children be treated with respect, “we cannot have regard to non-Jewish laws that contravene our holy religion.”
www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/we-don-t-want-lgbt-students-in-our-schools-leading-charedi-rabbi-tells-chief-rabbi-1.471563

And if you're a parent who's sent your child to a school of a particular religion you probably don't want your child exposed to any kind of sexual shenanigans - hetero, gay or trans - until they're older.

I'm an atheist and I wouldn't have wanted my child 'exposed to any kind of sexual shenanigans' in school - does any parent?

This is an extreme sect and very few in the U.K. follow this branch of Judaism. They already deprive their boys of a proper education - kids are gender segregated at school and the boys just learn religion at secondary school according to a bbc documentary and report on their website, girls get a better education because they are expected to work to support their husbands constant religious studies whilst popping out a dozen sprogs. My Jewish friend hasn't a good word to say about them.

The difference is that, in the UK, people with religion don't demand I turn my life, science and general common sense upside down to accommodate them!

Nope, here the TRAs do that.

They already deprive their boys of a proper education

And of speaking English.

SegmentationFault

Just because a kid is gay doesn't mean they're sexually active.

That was the point I was trying to make - obviously badly
That a religious school would have no objection to any child as long as not sexually active.

I'm an atheist and I wouldn't have wanted my child 'exposed to any kind of sexual shenanigans' in school - does any parent?

No, I don't suppose they do. I doubt they want their children exposed to the idea that a child's biological sex can be changed, either. :(

I second anniehm - this is not representative of the views of most Jews or Jewish leaders. Charedi communities are extreme and viewed by most Jews the same way most Christians view sects like The Brethren. I hope that’s clear.

I am very much in the GC camp and do not believe transwomen are women. However I also think most religions are hugely anti-feminist and homophobic, and this is horrible.

Controversially, perhaps, I don’t think religion should be a protected characteristic. Because your sex, race and sexuality are all part of who you are, while your religion is a choice. And I definitely don’t agree with religious schools.

just wondering how you can align your ‘yay! no trans kids’ delight with a religious group that wants to exclude any LGBTQ child and isn’t exactly liberal when it comes to women’s rights.

but i guess crow-barring doublethink into literally every news item you can find and making it solely about transgender people is the name of the game, here.

load of old bollocks, this. religious subjugation of women and girls, lack of real education for young men aside from religious studies, large families reliant on a woman to earn enough to support children and home while her husband studies a religion that requires (for women) modest dress, hair-covering and arranged marriages, food poverty, banning of technology...but they put a ‘T’ in their statement so hurray! these are definitely the good guys!

give me strength.

just wondering how you can align your ‘yay! no trans kids’ delight with a religious group that wants to exclude any LGBTQ child and isn’t exactly liberal when it comes to women’s rights.

Please provide evidence that anyone on here ever says "Yay! No trans kids".

There isn't anyone I know on here who wants any child discriminated against or treated unkindly for being LGBT; on the contrary, in fact. Read these comments here and you'll find people saying so.

I definitely don't put this sect in the 'good guys' category, I hope my posts make that clear. And other posters are not supporting their stance at all, merely predicting a clash of 'rights' and beliefs.

For avoidance of doubt: while I believe the dogma of genderism - encouraging kids to think of themselves as trans rather than allowing them to be simply as gender nonconforming as they wish within their inherent sex and sexuality - is harmful, a religious group wanting to exclude a 'trans' child is every bit as bad as it wanting to exclude a child for being inherently gay ie completely unacceptable.

For avoidance of doubt: while I believe the dogma of genderism - encouraging kids to think of themselves as trans rather than allowing them to be simply as gender nonconforming as they wish within their inherent sex and sexuality - is harmful, a religious group wanting to exclude a 'trans' child is every bit as bad as it wanting to exclude a child for being inherently gay ie completely unacceptable.

Indeed.

There's precedence for religious groups 'transing' gay people, eg. In Iran, where homosexuality is illegal, but not if you've legally and medically transitioned. Or this Christian mother, who seemed to be much more comfortable with the idea that she had a straight daughter trapped in a boy's body, rather than a gay son
www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/a43702/transgender-child-kimberly-shappley/

The Israeli sect that put this statement out are so extremely orthodox that they certainly do not speak for most Jews.

While gay sex is forbidden in the Bible, transing a child would never be acceptable to practicing Jews. Transing a child causes appalling harm to them, and sterilises them, both of which are categorically forbidden.

The orthodox view on homosexuality is essentially that you can be it but you cannot act upon it. (I'm not defending this, just stating it.)

And before anyone thinks that this attitude is Israeli, as opposed to Ultra-Orthodox Jewish, please note the success of Tel-Aviv Pride. Some 250,000 people participate, in a country the size of Wales.

I guess TRA's will be looking for screenshots that will enable them to say that GC MN'ers are motivated by religious bigotry.

And yet, it's perfectly okay for them to punch old women in the face when she objects to penis in the women's showers. And for them to march in a parade carrying baseball bats wrapped with barbed wire while shouting that lesbians must consider having penis-intact-males as dating partners.

I'm getting a little tired of the people on here who keep cautioning me to avoid upseting the violent crazies. They are violent crazies and I'm entitled to reality, not their multi-storied gaslighting where I'm supposed to believe rape is love.

I'm not religious so no worries there. I would agree that they should be free from discrimination but how much discrimination is it really to not want to hire someone suffering from schizophrenia or pedophilia? Hire one of them and you've got instant never-ending drama as well as multiple lawsuits when everyone fails to worship their god.

This is interesting because presumably it is about the current consultation on sex and relationships education.

I completed it today and I think, if I have read everything correctly, it will be compulsory for every school (so not just state schools) to teach it.

It says, for example, that children should be taught about same sex relationships. And that abortion should be taught factually without any judgement.

However, parents retain the right to withdraw their children. So presumably it would be possible for the school to employ someone external to come and teach, but all parents to withdraw their children?

FWIW I have completed the consultation stating that their should be a core curriculum that parents are not allowed to withdraw their child from.

consult.education.gov.uk/pshe/relationships-education-rse-health-education/

Interesting.

What counts more, the ideology from made up writings or the ideology of regressive sexists.

Your religion isn't necessarily a choice. If you're raised in a particular religious faith, you don't get a choice about that, and rejecting it when you're older may not protect you from discrimination based on you being identified with it.

If you look at the way that eg sectarian discrimination has worked in the UK, it's never been restricted to observant adherents of the faith in question. If you were a Catholic in Derry in the bad old days, you didn't get to not be treated like one just because you didn't believe in any of it. If someone doesn't get shortlisted for the job because the school on their CV or their name made it clear what foot they or at least their parents kicked with, they've not had the choice to disassociate themselves with that religion.

Same is true of anti-Semitism too, though obviously that's as much ethnic as religious prejudice.

I’d rather take my chances with the TRAs rather than fundamentalist religions.

I think it’s perfectly right that we segregate the sexes when it comes to prisons or sports or rape shelters.

I don’t think it’s acceptable to segregate them so religious fundamentalists don’t have to sit next to them on planes or because they don’t want you menstruating in their temples.

I’d rather take my chances with the TRAs rather than fundamentalist religions.

Sexist+feelz dogma or sexist+deity dogmas ... yes, the latter is worse in my book too.