Vaginas/women raping people

[booze2shoes]

I have only entered this rabbit hole very recently but am utterly amazed by how often I've heard the argument 'well women rape too'. I think this comes out of their gobs because it is the only way to justify allowing men into women's spaces but I just find it absolutely incredible that people who I thought were reasonable human beings are dismissing male sexual violence like this. This isn't really a question but just wanting to share this and ask if anyone else has heard version of this. It makes me so angry.

Women do sexually assault other people though.

Rape in UK law requires a penis.

Women in the UK do not and cannot "rape people too".

As in many countries rape is legally defined as non consensual sex, it is possible for women to commit rape. Obviously in this country, a penis is required.

Cross post - sorry!

Women do sexually assault other people though.

Do you have relevant statistics to quote/link as that might be helpful?

The thing to remember is the stats. Regardless of whether you define rape as penetration by a penis (UK law) or take a broader definition (e.g. US law), the fact remains that in the UK, 98% of people in prison for sex offences are male. There are more men in prison for sex offences than there are women in prison in total for any offence (and most women are in prison for non-violent offences like handling stolen goods, non-payment of fines, drug dealing).

Yes, women do it too. But men do it fifty times more often.

Yes, I guess there are two things that annoy me. One is the whole 'women rape too' thing in that it's factually incorrect in England. But even more so it's how they equate male and female sexual violence as if these two things happen as frequently in society. It drives me bonkers.

@arranfan

No, but I've been seriously sexually assaulted by a woman and that's evidence enough for me, thanks.

Djnoun that's awful, I'm sorry.

@thisonehasalittlecar

It was when I was seventeen, so a long time ago now. But stuff like this makes me upset, like what happened doesn't count because it was a woman and it's not statistically convenient.

I've been sexually assaulted by a woman (once).

And sexually assaulted by males more times than I can even list off the top of my head (including 2 rapists).

I am sorry for your experience, djnoun (but mine is that the great big ejaculating, prengnancy making cocks in my vagina did the worst damage)

it's how they equate male and female sexual violence as if these two things happen as frequently in society.

It does raise questions about how some people manage to assess risk for themselves and those for whom they care if there's such little understanding of relative numbers and the nature of verifiable evidence.

So sorry to hear about your attack, Djnoun.

But please bear in mind that what we're discussing here is not individuals (all rapes and sexual assaults are terrible, whoever the perpetrators are, that goes without saying), but public policy and safeguarding.

About 1 person a decade is killed by a cyclist on the pavement. This is a deeply terrible thing for them and their families. That doesn't mean though that because pavements are unsafe because of this we should allow motorcyclists on the pavement too.

That's the point we're trying to make with women only spaces. Yes, the occasional assault will happen, and that is terrible when it does, and the perpetrators are vile women. But that's not a reason to let men in there too, with male offending patterns, which show that we'd likely see a 50 fold increase in such incidents.

Again, I'm sorry to hear what happened to you. But we do need to talk about statistics too, as well as individual experiences. Both the individual lived experiences and the wider patterns matter.

I'm just saying, be careful what you are saying to prove a point. Don't say to someone who has been hurt, that's sad BUT....

I won't be reading or commenting any further on this thread.

sayhello and sorry to hear about your attack too.

Again, Djnoun, I am sorry to hear about your attack, but you do not get to use that as a silencing tactic to prevent women talking about male sexual violence. You just don't. This is not a game of top trumps.

I really wasn't trying to minimise sexual violence by women and I know that it happens. I was just interested in the way it was presented as more prevelant than it is by people trying to defend self-ID.

It’s “whataboutery” in action. Always said to derail and minimise discussion about issues affecting women and girls.

If MN allowed signatures at the end of every post, this would be mine:
victimfocus.wordpress.com/2018/01/03/stop-asking-me-what-about-men/

It makes a change for “what about men?” to become “what about women?” and I only ever hear it in relation to rape. Amazing, really

Don't worry Booze I don't think most people here think that's what you were trying to do.

I don't think anyone is trying to minimise sexual violence by women. I think someone may be trying to falsely imply that we are minimising sexual violence by women in order to stop us talking about the fact that male sexual violence is in fact more prevalent by a factor of fifty.

I also think I've seen this derailment tactic before.

Yes, individual trauma is sympathy-inducing, but it doesn't actually mean we should ignore the data and never discuss the empirical truth.

sayhelloandwavegoodbye - I've only just seen your post as we pretty much posted at the same time.

I am sorry that you have endured so much violence.

Crime statistics for the year ending March 2017 showed that men were responsible for 99% of rapes and assaults involving penetration. So, that's a factor of 100, not 50. Also, the female figures may include trans women, we can't tell.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/sexualoffencesinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017

I'm not sure anyone is intending to derail here--given the thread title it's not surprising that people who have had experience of this would click on it and join the discussion.

However OP I have encountered what you describe from people who have a different agenda and apart from statistics I'm at a loss as to how to counter it really. Any suggestions?

Can I point out that English law is separate to Scottish law? And also Northern Irish law.

I've read on other threads that the Scottish definition of rape doesn't specify penis, but I've just looked it up and does.

Anyway, there is no single 'UK' law on sex offences.

I don’t think physically born woman commit rape that often (compared to men). And maybe people talking about women raping men don’t fully understand what they hear or read (yes I know some women have raped). But I have to be honest it was a few years ago now when I first came across a news article saying a woman was arrested and being tried for rape. I was and it t took me a while to figure out that the woman was indeed a man

yetanother Scots law does use almost the same definition (I looked it up last time someone brought this point up, apropos of a rapist held in a Scottish prison). Different, slightly more recent legislation but essentially the same wording.