Toby Young - Spectator

[Pearpair4]

De-lurked (& NC'd) to draw this to your attention.

He's confused about sex and gender isn't he?

www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/science-is-on-the-side-of-the-trans-activists/

There is a hint of 'explain yourself' about that.

That article is so ignorant and arrogant it’s put my blood pressure up! Like so many pontificating men just giving us the benefit of their lack of thought, he’s not bothered to find anything out or think anything through. Will be commenting later on their website when I have time. grrrrr!!

Wow, this man doesn't get it at all. You're right, he is confusing sex and gender. He just doesn't seem to have understood the arguments, and despite saying he "doesn't know where he comes down" has decided the science is on the trans activist side.
Well, Toby, there may very well be be average psychological differences between men and women in some studies, but this has no bearing on whether humans can change sex, and then the onus is on you to explain why psychological traits is a better way to organize society. Why should we put feminine men into the same category as women, just because their interests align? That sounds sexist. The question is whether we are sex-separated, or identity feeling separated? Are we saying a psychological trait is what determines man or womanhood now?
Feminism is a political movement promoting the well-being and interests of the female sex.
That's why defending sex, not gender, matters.

Toby Young can't argue for shit. He was badly served by his education.

''The researchers discovered that the more economically developed a country is and the greater the gender equality, the less likely men and women’s attitudes are to converge. This suggests that average psychological differences between men and women are partly biological. How else to account for the fact that when men and women are free to pursue their own interests, gender differences become more pronounced, not less?''

As men feel more threatened by women's equality, women compensate. Thats how social conditioning works.
You can see men elicit placating behaviour from women the world over. But men dont want to face this as the end result is to question their own behaviour and sense of entitlement. Its easier to pretend its an inexplicable phenomena.

Couldn't make head or tail of his argument as it was so badly written.
The studies he refers to really underestimate how hard women have to fight to be taken seriously in male-majority fields and how they are steered away from them at every step of their development. Women in the West can earn good money doing a wider range of jobs so they do.

Oh look. A man who was educated beyond his ability pontificating on yet another subject he knows fuck all about.

Phew. Well done Toby. For one horrible moment I thought I was going to have to agree with him but, no, the world's still turning.

Haha. Toby proving once again why he needed nepotism to get into Oxbridge after fucking up his A levels.

So true re nepotism! Just read about Toby Young on Wikipedia. No wonder he's so arrogant - his dad coined the word meritocracy, then smoothed the path for his son to get into Oxford!

He wrote a good article in support of Graham Linehan the other week in the Spectator so I thought he might have a grasp on things.

For one horrible moment I thought I was going to have to agree with him

This

Just want to point out that in the interview with James Kirkup he mentions that he plans to talk to Toby Young. He wants someone to write an article disagreeing with him, which is a bit more substantial than "don't be mean"

Not read this one yet so don't know if it fits the bill.

Just want to point out that in the interview with James Kirkup he mentions that he plans to talk to Toby Young. He wants someone to write an article disagreeing with him, which is a bit more substantial than "don't be mean

I was wondering if Toby Young is the best intellectual canon that they can muster. That said, I suppose Prof Whittle is always ready to write in an appropriately re-educational manner...

Haha. Toby proving once again why he needed nepotism to get into Oxbridge after fucking up his A levels.

Well yes.

He hasn’t really thought it through. If women can be defined according to psychological traits, everyone can be tested to find out whether they are a risk taker and be defined as male or female accordingly.

Might be a shock for people who find out they are no longer trans, and men who find out they are women and vice versa, but at least we will have settled the matter.

UpstartCrow - it's actually changes in men's personality trait scores that account for the effect found in the study. Women's scores are fairly consistent across the different societies.

Not that you'd be able to tell from the press coverage!

I could argue the pro-TRA stance better than Toby! So could most of the women contributing here.

He's a duffer. What's he got in there? A tiny bit of evo psych confused with a tiny bit of actual science, neither of which he properly understands, plus a massive dollop of his usual arrogant entitlement.

That meme needs a special version just for him: BEHOLD! A TOBY HAS ARRIVED.

Is this the best argument they can manage? Toby Young really doesn't have a clue.

For instance, if you plot statistical distributions for men and women with respect to where they fall on the systematising-empathising axis, there will be considerable overlap between the two.

So there is no such thing as a male or female brain, but there may be traits which are more common in men than women, or vice versa.

But instead of this obvious conclusion, he decides instead that
Trans activists could look at the research evidence and claim that people with gender dysphoria were, in some meaningful, biological sense, born in the wrong bodies — and many of them do make exactly that claim.

Transgender ideology relies on there being distinct male and female brains. The large overlap between the sexes is an argument against transgender ideology, not for it.

More men than women are taller than 6 foot therefore anyone who is taller than 6 foot must be a man.

anyone who is taller than 6 foot must be a man.

Well that's clearly not true. Behold, a 6+ foot woman.

What is so fucking hard to understand about women not wanting to share their spaces with men?!

All this handwringing, all this discussion about gender and sex and science and society.

No. Women don't want to share their spaces with men. That's it. Why can't that just be respected?

Phew. Well done Toby. For one horrible moment I thought I was going to have to agree with him but, no, the world's still turning.

Let us say this is true and average interests or talents of men and women differ. You still have two pronouncedly overlapping Gaussian curves with, say, many women more gifted in maths than men, even if men were better on average biologically (if this stereotype is true which I doubt). So how does it make more sense to organize society according to gender, which in fact will mean women won‘t get jobs as mathematicians unless they transition, but all the less gifted lass will (I see that in STEM, actually) than organizing it according to sex, which protects women against sexual assault and should allow everyone to choose professions they are good at, free of gendered preconceptions?

I’ll just leave this here....

I could argue the pro-TRA stance better than Toby! So could most of the women contributing here.

Still not read the article yet (sorry) but if it doesn't use the don't be mean argument it gives James something to argue about in his next article.

It will be interesting to see what response Toby gets from TRAs.