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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Attitudes to Gender - a survey being used to write a new gender bill in the UK

89 replies

Trousered · 21/10/2018 17:22

What is the purpose of the study?
This survey is part of the Future of Legal Gender (FLaG) project funded by the Economic and Social Research Council (2018-2021). It explores 1) whether people should have a female/male legal status assigned at birth; and 2) how we could change the way that female/male and other gender categories are used in UK law.
Who is doing this research and why?
Professor Davina Cooper (King’s College London) leads the overall project and Professor Elizabeth Peel (Loughborough University) is leading this part of the research.
We want to make sure that the research is informed by the experiences and views of a wide range of people. Thank you for sharing your opinions and contributing to the project. You can read more about why we are doing the project, and the research team here.

OP posts:
ijustwannadance · 21/10/2018 18:04

Let's all pretend that sex doesn't exist and it's all about the feelz.

I wonder if that will stop the people with dicks from raping, abusing, murdering, pimping, using, etc etc all those with vaginas? No.

Pretending biological differences between the sexes do not exist is fucking ridiculous.
To define anything by gender, which is changeable and has seemingly endless choices is even more ridiculous.

Waterparc · 21/10/2018 18:07

Done. You can comment in each section about the conflation of sex and gender so it can be done

donkey86 · 21/10/2018 18:16

Filled it in. Got really quite cross doing so. Relieved my crossness by using the final box to tell them just what I thought of their survey.

Ugh, this madness goes on and on.

PutItAwayDear · 21/10/2018 18:19

It might be non binary but it's still bollocks.

BeerAndBassGuitars · 21/10/2018 18:26

Some of those questions are essentially unanswerable. They are either meaningless or I can't tell whether they are talking about sex vs gender.

breastfeedingclownfish · 21/10/2018 18:30

First Question: How do you define yourself

Options - Male, Female, Other

Fuck sake. I am female. The word female has its own definition. I don't choose to be female.

What a pile of steaming bollocks. I will complete it later but now I need wine.

Vixxxy · 21/10/2018 18:39

This took me nearly an hour and a half, and was so fucking annoying. They noted at the start that sex and gender are different things, yet throughout the questionnaire they used gender where clearly they meant sex, constantly so I pointed it out each time. And in the do you have anything else to say bit at the end, I said again that it seemed gender had been use instead of sex on purpose, and asked why. Have also signed up for their other surveys, though they will probably also raise my blood pressure.

Everytime they said 'gender' then said male/female I pointed out how male and female are sex categories and 'gender' is a useless term. And grr at the sex assigned at birth nonsense. And going on about childrens 'legal sex' Hmm

Charliethefeminist · 21/10/2018 18:44

Does it help if you identify as non binary when you do it

Also can they see where you have arrived from (ie mumsnet) and filter you out

Original poster
Trousered · 21/10/2018 18:51

Its a academic research project so I think its safe technically.

I told them they should not be gaslighting people to sanitise a fetish and if they don't realise this is what they are doing they should wise up quickly.

OP posts:
Theinconstantgardener · 21/10/2018 19:01

donkey86
Filled it in. Got really quite cross doing so. Relieved my crossness by using the final box to tell them just what I thought of their survey
Me too.

Vixxxy · 21/10/2018 19:07

Single-gender organisations must accept anyone who self-identifies with the required gender.

Women's organisations should have more freedom to decide who is a woman where they are tackling women's disadvantage.

These questions are utter bollocks, as are most of them. On the list of protected characteristics, they have replaced sex with gender. I hope this is not being used to write a new gender bill! Its bollocks. And whoever wrote it seems to not actually understand sex and gender. And seems to think gender overwrites sex..

Original poster
Trousered · 21/10/2018 19:12

Women's organisations should have more freedom to decide who is a woman where they are tackling women's disadvantage.

I answered this by saying using funding blackmail to compel male access is immoral and should stop.

OP posts:
Vixxxy · 21/10/2018 19:18

I can't answer the questions because I don't know what they mean when they say gender, maybe they mean gender in which case my answers are one thing, but maybe they mean sex in which case my answers are different! Utter tripe.

I answered them and put in the comments bit that 'I am guessing you mean sex by this question as 'gender has nothing to do with it' and that. Or pointing out that if they do mean gender, my answer is the opposite.

BollocksToBrexit · 21/10/2018 19:21

The questionaire is bollocks because it conflates sex and gender but then so does real life. When I was born my sex was recorded and shows on my birth certificate. But if I decide I'm a bloke I can get it changed to match my gender id But my sex hasn't changed. So which is it supposed to be? Sex or gender?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/10/2018 19:23

Filled it in. Got really quite cross doing so. Relieved my crossness by using the final box to tell them just what I thought of their survey

Me three.

BollocksToBrexit · 21/10/2018 19:29

Same.

I'm so confused about the way they're asking about gender. I know what my sex is and how that affects life and attitudes etc but I haven't go a fucking clue about 'my gender'. What does it even mean?

Melanippe · 21/10/2018 19:32

That is one of the most poorly constructed questionnaires I have ever seen. I would be very interested to see the Cronbach's Alpha results of it's reliability and validity, because I would guess they would be well below the threshold. It reads like an over enthusiastic GCSE student's class test.

JayneW63 · 21/10/2018 20:02

My partner had to ask me to stop screaming at the computer.

And most of my answers were , I do not understand this question, do you mean sex or gender?

IFeelSorryForMillie · 21/10/2018 20:14

Trousered I'm not filling it in. I am more concerned by your OP and your post 17.25.

The question is WHY is all this money being poured into this? WHY are certain organisations going to be consulting on and advising on policies and how to market it them to public, throughout changes in the law?

it does look like a long long game with all notion of sex being wiped off the board, as the End Game.

I could have the wrong end of stick though i've done it before

ijustwannadance · 21/10/2018 20:43

It is very sinister. Looks like they are purposely mixing up sex and gender to get the results they want.
If you ask an average member of the public if women should have same gender spaces they would probably say yes because they think it means sex.

Language is crucial.

TooManyBooksTooLittleTime · 21/10/2018 20:54

I thought I'd do the survey first, so my answers would be my own, not influenced by comments on here. Unfortunately it looks like they're going to assume everyone from MN is using a standard response, as I made very similar comments about sex/ gender. I also got angrier as I went through. I wish I could just find it amusing it's so ridiculous...but so much money went into this!

Original poster
Trousered · 21/10/2018 21:02

A couple of videos from Sheila Jeffreys explains it all - breaking down legal boundaries is the end goal of fetishists, they don't want legal restrictions which can be used to exclude them.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/sheila-jeffreys/

I found this very interesting guardian article while I was searching. The Guardian was a useful paper all those years ago..
www.theguardian.com/world/2005/jul/02/gender.politicsphilosophyandsociety

OP posts:
MissSusanSays · 21/10/2018 21:06

So, what they are suggesting is rewriting the entirety of sex based law to suit less than 1% of the population.

Original poster
Trousered · 21/10/2018 21:15

So, what they are suggesting is rewriting the entirety of sex based law to suit less than 1% of the population.

When you think about it from the perspective of male sexual rights it's not that surprising is it? Why wouldn't they want to make every aspect of their sex lives unchallengeable, and undisputable? It's been that way for millennia, this is just one aspect of it. Women have been persuaded to do this legwork for them again, note how many nice women there are at the meeting happily putting together this horrendous men's rights survey.

futureoflegalgender.kcl.ac.uk/events-and-public-and-policy-engagements/

OP posts:
MIdgebabe · 21/10/2018 21:22

It’s not to suit 1%, it’s to suit the approximately 20% of the Male population who think women are just there for sex.

Why 20%?... so around 20 to 25% of women have faced serious sexual abuse. Typival offenders have committed 4 offences, so we might say around 5% of men are offenders. But more offenses increases probability of conviction and many men may just not follow up on their thoughts out of fear of being caught, so there will be more men who have those thoughts than men who act illegally upon them