Crossdressers included in the definition of Transgender

[breastfeedingclownfish]

I wanted to discuss this, as it this definistion has been proposed by both Scottish Trans Alliance and LGBT Youth Scotland in their their submissions to the UK Women and Equalities commission.

The Scottish Trans Alliance submission says:

"We recommend the terms transgender people and trans people be used as equivalent inclusive umbrella terms for anyone whose gender identity (including their gender expression) does not fully correspond with the sex they were assigned at birth. This is inclusive of:

-Trans women – people assigned male at birth but who identity as women
-Trans men – people assigned female at birth but who identify as men
-Non-binary people – people who do not identify solely as men or solely as women. Instead their gender identity is between or beyond the man/woman binary or they have no gender. (This is an umbrella term inclusive of other terms such as gender-fluid, gender-queer, non-gendered, agender.)

• Cross-dressing people – people whose gender expression includes dressing in clothing which does not fully correspond with the sex they were assigned at birth but otherwise identify with their assigned sex.

data.parliament.uk/WrittenEvidence/CommitteeEvidence.svc/EvidenceDocument/Women%20and%20Equalities/Transgender%20Equality/written/19659.html

The LGBT Youth Scotland concurs with this definition.

Furthermore, James Morton of the Scottish Trans Alliance was the person responsible for changing the definition of 'woman' to include transwomen in Scottish Law. So legally, cross dressing males who "otherwise identify with their assigned sex" would be legally women in Scotland.

I am completely bewildered that cross dressing aspect has not been picked up by politicians/press.

I am particulary keen to hear from the woke crew. How the fuck can you defend this shit?

Ok got the doc from Theinconstantgardener . Posting it here.

If anyone is doubting James Morton's influence on Government policy, that will be soundly swept away by this document

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Page 1

Definition of woman

Many thanks for your enquiry. You have received a letter from a constituent raising concerns about the definition of ‘woman’ used in the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018.

You ask whether this is the first time this definition has been used on the face of legislation, and whether a similar approach to the definition of ‘man’, in terms of gender reassignment, now applies within any legislation.

You also ask whether this definition of ‘woman’ is now in common use in our parliamentary and government documents.

Summary

The definition of woman in the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018 is only for the purposes of the Act. The definition of woman was amended during Stage 2 of the Bill to be inclusive of trans women who do not have a gender recognition certificate. The amendment achieved cross-party support.

The Equality Act 2010 defines ‘woman’ as ‘female of any age’, and ‘man’ as ‘male of any age’, ie, in the biological sense. The Gender Recognition Act 2004 allows people to legally change their gender. This means a person who was biologically male or female, can legally become a woman or a man.

Therefore, in law, a woman is either biologically female, or is someone who has legally changed their gender to be a woman.

The definition in the 2018 Act is specific to that Act, ie the aim of achieving 50% of gender representation on public boards. The definition in the Act is not in common use in parliamentary or government documents. Such a definition would need to be discussed and debated on a case by case basis depending on the policy area, as it was in this case.

Definition of woman in the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018 (2018 Act)

As you note, the 2018 Act provides the following definition of ‘woman’

“woman” includes a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (within the meaning of section 7 of the Equality Act 2010) if, and only if, the person is living as a woman and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female.

Page 2
Definition of woman in the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018 (2018 Act)

As you note, the 2018 Act provides the following definition of ‘woman’

“woman” includes a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (within the meaning of section 7 of the Equality Act 2010) if, and only if, the person is living as a woman and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female.

Your enquiry helpfully referred to the Explanatory Notes for the 2018 Act, which set out:

• “woman” includes a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (within the meaning of section 7 of the Equality Act 2010) if, and only if, the person is living as a woman and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female. This means that it is not necessary for a trans woman to have a Gender Recognition Certificate to be included as a woman for the purposes of the Act, provided they –
• have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment,
• are living as a woman, and
• are proposing to undergo, are undergoing or have undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female.
• A trans man without a Gender Recognition Certificate would not be included as a woman for the purposes of the Act if they -
• are not living as a woman, or
• are proposing to undergo, are undergoing or have undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming male.

For further clarity, the Equality Act 2010 (s7) definition of gender reassignment is:

(1) A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

(2) A reference to a transsexual person is a reference to a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.
(3) In relation to the protected characteristic of gender reassignment—
(a) a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a transsexual person;
(b) a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is a reference to transsexual persons.

Page 3
The definition of gender reassignment under the Equality Act 2010 is broad. A person would not have to seek a legal change to their gender to be protected from unlawful discrimination.

Under the Gender Recognition Act 2004, transgender people can apply for legal recognition of their acquired gender. The Gender Recognition Panel, made up of legal and medical members, makes decisions on issuing gender recognition certificates. To issue a certificate, the Panel must be satisfied that the person applying:

• Has, or has had, gender dysphoria; and
• Has lived in the acquired gender for two years before the date of the application.

A trans woman who has legally changed her gender under the Gender Recognition Act 2004, is a woman.

The Equality Act 2010 provides a definition of ‘man’ and ‘woman’ at section 212(1):

• ‘man’ means a male of any age
• ‘woman’ means a female of any age

These definitions are generally understood in the biological sense.

For the purposes of the 2018 Act, a trans woman is a woman if, and only if, the person is living as a woman and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female.

Other legislation

You ask whether this is the first time this definition has been used on the face of legislation, and whether a similar approach to the definition of ‘man’, in terms of gender reassignment, now applies within any legislation.

It is believed that this is the first time this definition has been used. However, it should be noted that the definition only applies to the 2018 Act.

There are few pieces of legislation which have a gender or sex specific element.

One is the Prohibition of Female Genital Mutilation (Scotland) Act 2005. This does not define women or girls, but refers to female genitalia in its definition of FGM.

The Offences (Aggravation by Prejudice) (Scotland) Act 2009 includes transgender identity as a category of hate crime. It defined transgender identity as:

(8)In this section, reference to transgender identity is reference to—
(a)transvestism, transsexualism, intersexuality or having, by virtue of the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (c. 7), changed gender, or
(b)any other gender identity that is not standard male or female gender identity.

Page 4

Consideration of the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Bill

The definition of ‘woman’ was amended at Stage 2 of the Bill’s consideration. This was based on evidence received by the Equalities and Human Rights Committee from the Scottish Trans Alliance. The position was supported by other stakeholders including Women 50:50 and the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

The amendment was put forward by Mary Fee MSP, a member of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, with the support of the then Cabinet Secretary for Communities, Social Security and Equalities, Angela Constance MSP. The amendment had support from the whole Committee.

Going through the Bill’s consideration on this matter, sections are drawn out so that you can see how the definition came to be in the Act. During the Stage 1 and Stage 3 debate, the inclusive nature of the definition of woman achieved cross-party support, for the purposes of the Bill.

Oral evidence on the Bill

21 September 2017
www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11101&mode=pdf

Talat Yaqoob:
“Women 50:50 supports the Equality Network’s response, which discusses the need to ensure that the pursuit of women on boards is inclusive of trans women. It is important to note that, when we talk about women being 51 per cent of the population, we are talking about those who self-identify and report as women, and I think that they should be included”. Col 14

28 September 2017
www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11124&mode=pdf

Representatives from Universities Scotland, University and College Union Scotland, EIS and the Equality and Human Rights Commission said they would support the Bill being more inclusive of trans women.

5 October 2017
www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11136&mode=pdf

James Morton of the Scottish Trans Alliance made the case for changing the definition of woman on the Bill

“The bill’s wording is positive in that it says that it is about women and it does not try to limit that in a negative way against trans people, but we need to make sure that it is not open to misinterpretation. We would like a bit of extra information to be included for the avoidance of doubt. We propose that the bill should say that the definition of “woman” includes a person with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment who is living in the female gender and does not include a person with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment who is not living in the female gender.

It is about how people live and identify, not about whether they have gone through the very cumbersome process of getting a gender recognition certificate. At the moment, the vast majority of trans women, who have lived as women for many years, do not have gender recognition certificates, because getting one is such a degrading and humiliating process”. Col 4

26 October 2017
www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11154&i=101708&c=2032818#ScotParlOR

Mary Fee MSP asked the Cabinet Secretary for Communities, Social Security and Equalities, if the Scottish Government are considering the Scottish Trans Alliance’s suggestion on changing the definition of woman in the Bill.

Angela Constance:
“We are considering the suggestion, and we are certainly open to making improvements to how the bill is drafted. We made earlier improvements that enabled us to address the issue of people who are non-binary; a reason why we moved away from a gender representation objective of 50 per cent women and 50 per cent men was that there were some legal issues around it and it excluded non-binary people. Having a gender representation objective only about women is inclusive of people who are nonbinary.

On trans women, when we use the term “women”, we want that to include all persons who self-identify as women, irrespective of the sex that they were assigned at birth and, crucially, irrespective of whether they have a gender recognition certificate. We are exploring the matter within our legislative competence. The Scotland Act 2016 amends reservations under the original Scotland Act 1998. As I said earlier, the inroads that we have made into equalities legislative competence have been partial. There are some wrinkles that we need to try to iron out. However, our intention is to resolve that issue.

We are looking closely at the suggestion from the Scottish trans alliance and we want the matter to be sorted for the bill. If for some reason we cannot do that, we have a consultation around our plans for a gender recognition act. We are working hard to address the matter and we are working through a number of legal issues. We will keep the committee fully informed”. Col 10

Equalities and Human Rights Committee: Stage 1 Report on the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Bill (20 November 2017)
sp-bpr-en-prod-cdnep.azureedge.net/published/EHRiC/2017/11/20/Stage-1-report-on-the-Gender-Representation-on-Public-Boards--Scotland--Bill-3/EHRiCS052017R6Rev.pdf

20. “Some specific concerns were raised about the language used in certain parts of the legislation. Suggestions were made by witnesses as to how this language could be made inclusive of trans people and remove loopholes in the appointment process. We support these suggestions, and ask the Scottish Government to work with the Scottish Trans Alliance to bring forward appropriate amendments at Stage 2”.

…

48. “The bill defines a number of terms used in the legislation in section 2. Although no issues were raised with most of the definitions provided, we believe that further efforts could be made as to whether the term “women” is inclusive of trans people who identify as women, including those who do not hold a gender recognition certificate.

49. We heard compelling arguments from witnesses about ways in which the language used in the Bill could be tweaked to ensure the inclusion of trans people. James Morton of the Scottish Trans Alliance said:

We would like a bit of extra information to be included [in the Bill] for the avoidance of doubt. We propose that the bill should say that the definition of “woman” included a person with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment who is living in the female gender and does not include a person with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment who is not living in the female gender.

Source: Official Report, 5 October 2017, col. 4

Page 5

50. It was suggested by the Scottish Trans Alliance that the objective is set for women, including trans women, with trans men and non-binary trans people included in the proportion outside of the objective, given the small percentage of trans people in society. We view this as a sensible solution to ensure inclusivity.

51. The Cabinet Secretary said that the Scottish Government are “certainly open to making improvements to how the bill is drafted” in this regard, and are “looking closely at the suggestion from the Scottish Trans Alliance”

“Although the exact nature of these changes would be a matter for Stage 2, we would expect the Scottish Government to address the issues raised by the Scottish Trans Alliance”.

Scottish Government response to the Committee’s Stage 1 Report (27 November 2017)
www.scottish.parliament.uk/S5_Equal_Opps/Reports/Gender_Rep_St_1_Response.pdf

“The Scottish Government is actively considering how the Bill can be as inclusive as possible, including giving full consideration to the proposed amendment put forward by the Scottish Trans Alliance in their written evidence to the Committee”.

Stage 1 Debate on the Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Bill (30 November 2017)
www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11235&mode=pdf

The Cabinet Secretary, Angela Constance, said:

“I agree whole-heartedly with the committee’s position on the inclusion of trans women in the bill, and I reassure members that the Scottish Government is actively looking at how we can ensure that the bill is as inclusive as it can be. I will of course provide the committee with an update as soon as I am able to do so”. Col 45

The proposal to be more inclusive achieved cross-party support during the Stage 1 debate.

The Scottish Government set out its rational for Stage 2 amendments in a letter to the Equalities and Human Rights Committee (15 December 2017) www.scottish.parliament.uk/S5_Equal_Opps/General%20Documents/Cab_Sec.pdf

14. “The inclusion of trans women in the Bill has been raised throughout stage 1 by stakeholders and by the Committee and the Scottish Government has consistently maintained its position that the Bill should be as inclusive of trans women as possible within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament.

15. We have worked with Mary Fee MSP and the Scottish Trans Alliance on the issue and the amendment in her name ensures that the term ‘woman’ will include a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment (within the meaning of section 7 of the Equality Act 2010) if, and only, if the person is living as a woman and is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of becoming female”.

Stage 2 Consideration – 21 December 2017
www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11289&mode=pdf

Mary Fee MSP put forward the amendment to change the definition of ‘woman’ for the purposes of the Bill, which was agreed to by the Cabinet Secretary and the Committee.

Stage 3 Debate (30 January 2018)
www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11335&mode=pdf
Reference was made to the Stage 2 amendment to include trans women in the definition of the woman. Again, this amendment achieved cross party support. The Bill was passed with a vote of 88 For, 28 Against, and 0 Abstentions. Conservative and Unionist Party Members voted against the Bill. The Conservatives and Unionist Party felt they could not support the Bill for a range of reasons. Their main concern was that public appointments would no longer be made on merit. However, in their speeches they welcomed the inclusivity of the definition of ‘woman’.
Further information
Consultations on the Gender Recognition Act 2004
• The Scottish Government’s consultation is now closed (9 November 2017 to 1 March 2018. The organisational responses can now be viewed - www.gov.scot/Topics/Justice/law/17867/gender-recognition-review/review-of-gender-recognition-act-2004-list-of-orga .
there were 15,689 responses in total.
The Scottish Government said it would bring forward legislation in the next legislative programme (announced last week in the Programme for Government)
• The UK Government is current consulting (3 July – 19 October 2018). www.gov.uk/government/consultations/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act-2004

The Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Bill – Bill documents and SPICe briefings on the Bill - www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/105197.aspx

[ends]

Here is a study with something important to say about NHS gatekeeping:

www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E/S1758320900012695a.pdf/gender_reassignment_5_years_of_referrals_in_oxfordshire.pdf

All individuals who request treatment for gender dysphoria in Oxfordshire are referred for psychiatric assessment and subsequent referral to GIDS. 80% of the 59 people (men and women) referred were referred onto GIDS subsequent to this assessment.

Reasons for non-referral:

not ready for transitioning (either determined by the individual or because the person was not currently living in the desired gender role), being homosexual but not having gender identity disorder, having an autism-spectrum disorder with a significant degree of impairment such that the real-life experience criterion was not met, and seeking gender reassignment to facilitate or normalise paedophilia. This latter small group described gender reassignment as a means by which to increase their intimate contact with children, which they viewed to be more socially acceptable in a female role

Of the 39 men in this study, 2 were refused a referral to GIDS because they wanted to normalise their paedophilia.

Gatekeeping works. Those two males would be able to obtain a GRC with no questions asked under self-ID.

@HollowTalk, yes, exactly. Google Pips Bunce.

I couldn't make it to the end of that Scottish document. It's too upsetting, it's like reading Winston Smith's interrogation in 1984. How on earth did it become law? Didn't anybody reading it think it was wrong, or bizarre, or offensive, or even just a little weird?

Thanks for posting clownfish

Didn't anybody reading it think it was wrong, or bizarre, or offensive, or even just a little weird? How on earth did it become law?
These are questions we need to be asking our msps I feel jelly Over and over.

Has anyone actually asked Greyson Perry what he thinks about al of this? because apparently according to this he is now a 'woman'

Placemark to read later

Wow lang that study is really something.
That's 5% of those men. Scary stuff.
If 500,000 men want to self Id,(no idea where they pull that figure from but it's one ive seen bandied about)
25,000 of them could be doing it just for the purpose of normalising their paedophilia.
Not to mention all the other men who are not necessarily paedophiles but have other creepy rapey and voyeuristic intentions.
We're fucked in this goes through.

I wonder how that 5% of transwomen figure translates to the male population ie higher or lower? I suppose with such a small sample size it’s hard to extrapolate with any accuracy - all the more reason to continue to research in this area. Has that paper been published lang?

I think we need to ensure that all clothing is now clearly labelled as men's or women's. I wouldn't want to accidentally wear something that is assigned male and find myself trans.
I wonder if a kilt is male or female?

Noone has a problem with clothing Voice, just a problem with the lie that is the female cock.

Noone really cares whether a dick or vulva is under a kilt. Wear what you want.

As the man said: a mans a man for a' that

Angela Constance:
“We are considering the suggestion, and we are certainly open to making improvements to how the bill is drafted. We made earlier improvements that enabled us to address the issue of people who are non-binary; a reason why we moved away from a gender representation objective of 50 per cent women and 50 per cent men was that there were some legal issues around it and it excluded non-binary people. Having a gender representation objective only about women is inclusive of people who are nonbinary.

On trans women, when we use the term “women”, we want that to include all persons who self-identify as women, irrespective of the sex that they were assigned at birth and, crucially, irrespective of whether they have a gender recognition certificate. We are exploring the matter within our legislative competence. The Scotland Act 2016 amen

21 September 2017
www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11101&mode=pdf

Talat Yaqoob:
“Women 50:50 supports the Equality Network’s response, which discusses the need to ensure that the pursuit of women on boards is inclusive of trans women. It is important to note that, when we talk about women being 51 per cent of the population, we are talking about those who self-identify and report as women, and I think that they should be included”. Col 14

It's important that these people are held to account for their actions. I'm saving these responses. Please do too. This need to be requoted back at them when they are exposed.

Even more scummery

www.disabledgo.com/blog/2016/05/isaac-takes-ehrc-chair-despite-concerns-over-dwp-outsourcing-work/#.W8xtB2hKi00

twitter.com/onlyobjectivity/status/1053984232777961472?s=21

Oh my holy fuck, breastfeedingclownfish, you really would think this was a Monty Python sketch! It really is a man’s world.

That's morally corrupt

Yes Perf, and James Morton, who features so many times in the above, is a transman.

James choose to present male because he didn't like being female , and then made a career trashing women's rights. He's almost there.

Jess Bradley, AimeeCh, etc have put a blue spanner in the works. These fuckers have all socialised. They know

Does anyone else suspect a revenge / mean girls scenario here with bullied and ostracised people devoting lifetimes to getting their own back.

National Crime Agency estimates 1 in 35 men have paedophile tendencies. That is 750,000 men with 250,000 of them attracted to children under 12.

That is 2.85%.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11690451/One-in-35-men-has-paedophile-tendencies-crime-agency-claims.html

However this bbc article quotes a Dr who says it could be as high as 5%.

I wonder if Stonewall have asked any intersex people how they feel about being defined by Stonewall as transgender.