"You Guys"

[ritzbiscuits]

This phrase drives me crazy, everyone seems to use it these days. My dh thinks I'm over sensitive for finding it offensive, and has asked at his very politically correct public sector place of work and not one person had a problem with it.

You wouldn't call a mixed group of people "hey girls' would you? It's used lots in kids tv as well, what message is this sending our young women?

Anyone with me on this?

www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/08/guys-gender-neutral/568231/

Absolutely. See, there's this guy I was talking to....

I was talking to a bloke wasn't I?

I don't like it either. I've made a concerted effort to remove 'male as default' language from my idiolect. I don't mention it when others do it because I can't really be bothered, but I don't use it myself anymore.

I hate it too.

Thanks for sharing that article, I'll read it in detail when I'm back home.

Guys ( plural);used as sex/gender neutral in many groups. I think it might help in general if we had more neutral terms. I have heard dd use it about an all girl group. It’s sort of saying, where sex doesn’t matter, don’t bring it up.

People make the Male assumption if you say I was talking to a doctor.

I don't mind it because we have something similar in Ireland. If I told someone in my family that 'the lads' were coming to something, they'd know exactly who I meant, and I'd be referring to a group of females.

There was this doctor I was talking to.

There was this nurse I was talking to.

There was this firefighter I was talking to.

There was this funeral director I was talking to.

There was this teacher I was talking to. ?????

Guys is fine.

vimeo.com/276940268

Isn’t the test to see if it is gender neutral to a heterosexual man how many x you have slept with?

So how many people have you slept with would be considered fine. But asking a heterosexual man how many guys he has slept with would be considered inappropriate. Therefore women are not considered to be included in guys.

Another Americanism that sounds odd to my ear is the use of the word "bathroom" when talking about lavatories/toilets/bogs/the gents/the ladies.

I notice that younger TRAs use the term a lot. I've never seen a sign to the 'bathroom' or heard it used when I'm out and about. 'Where are the bathrooms, please?' is a question that I have never been asked.

I prefer a term that does exactly what it says on the tin, rather than twee imported language.

At least they TRAs haven't started calling female's toilets 'the powder room' yet - I'm thankful for small mercies.

I'm with you OP.

It's not gender neutral. It assumes that women are happy to fit it with men (the dominant default), but no one would expect the other way around.

I know what you mean, but I must confess I'm scratching my head for an everyday alternative.

You guys has turned up as an attempt for English to distinguish between
You = one person
You = more than one person

It is a useful distinction and it's got 300 million American English speakers behind it. That's why it's catching. One of the problems is that, yes, it uses a male noun.

British English has come up with a different solution: "yous". This is admirably devoid of gender and consistent with English grammar but socially unpalatable to many.

Which one do you think is more likely to become mainstream?

Idk. At the Uni in the US where I was a post-doc my GC female US colleague would regularly address us, even if a group of girls only, as ‚you guys‘.

I think guys is perfectly ok. Shame savile ruined 'guys and gals'.

It’s meaning is changing over time. 20 years ago, me being considered just one of the guys was a compliment,because it meant they saw me as a person first and a woman second. It was a near all male environment

I've said it before on threads like these, and I'll say it again. This is not a problem in the American South. What y'all need is "y'all."

People make the Male assumption if you say I was talking to a doctor.

Which people?! Not at all convinced on that one...

That link upthread offers "folks", "peeps" and "comrades" as alternatives. I may start trying these out (with "comrades" being tongue-in-cheek).

I agree with SenecaFalls...

"Y'all" covers it.

More English alternative is to just use "people".

I use "guys" a lot but have consciously tried to stop because I don't like it.

Brits when I was younger used to say "you lot" when talking about a group but that seems to have morphed into "you guys" which we use here in the states.

I use it in meetings and in emails to mixed sex groups. I think it’s fine. If it’s just men I may say ‘chaps’ and if all women I may say ‘ladies’.

I've consciously tried to avoid using it too, and prefer "folks" if I can. I'm a brownie leader and it's taken me a good year to switch to "girls" every time.

I use it at work, but that's non-controversial because there are hardly any women around. I get the point though that a 'guy', singular, means a male person. It's male as default again, like how the male pronoun was the default for talking about a single person in abstract, and 'man' meant the whole of humanity.

'He' used to be used as a 'gender neutral' pronoun as well (and in fact some people still use it in this way). It's not actually gender neutral, it just erases women. Lots of masculine terms are used as if they were gender neutral, but never ever feminine terms (sometimes men are addressed as 'ladies' etc but only for a joke with a slightly mocking tone) - this should tell anyone all they need to know, it's not just a coincidence.

There are plenty of neutral terms you can train yourself into using if you're interested. I think the simplest one is just 'Hey everyone'. It's not the biggest issue in the world and I'd never have a go at anyone over it but it's a valid point.