"You Guys"

[ritzbiscuits]

This phrase drives me crazy, everyone seems to use it these days. My dh thinks I'm over sensitive for finding it offensive, and has asked at his very politically correct public sector place of work and not one person had a problem with it.

You wouldn't call a mixed group of people "hey girls' would you? It's used lots in kids tv as well, what message is this sending our young women?

Anyone with me on this?

I like all the alternatives, but I do think the vast majority of people, including women and girls find “guys” to be inclusive and it’s widely used, so I am reluctant to kick up a fuss about other people’s use because I think that helps create or exaggerate any exclusive meaning leading to women feeling (and being) less included.

theOtherPamAyres - lavatory, toilet, bog, ladies, gents are all euphemistic in origin. Lavatory and toilet are both references to washing, not shitting/pissing, exactly the same as bathroom. Unless you're going to call it the shitter, or some such term, you are not calling it 'exactly what it does on the tin'.

Objecting to language on the basis of sexism is one thing, objecting to language on the basis of it being American is really silly.

Sorry, toilet is more about dressing/grooming rather than washing. But the point stands, it's nothing to do with expelling waste from the body.

It's not actually gender neutral, it just erases women. Lots of masculine terms are used as if they were gender neutral, but never ever feminine terms (sometimes men are addressed as 'ladies' etc but only for a joke with a slightly mocking tone) - this should tell anyone all they need to know, it's not just a coincidence.

I totally agree Magic.

I trained myself out of 'guys/you guys' years ago. Sometimes I use "peeps" (short for people) which is sex-neutral.

For a facility in a public building Americans generally tend to use "restroom," which is even more euphemistic. "Bathroom" is used for private homes. "Powder room" is actually not just for women in most usages. It generally means a room in a private house with sink and toilet, but no bath, also called a "half-bath."

but I do think the vast majority of people, including women and girls find “guys” to be inclusive

I think it's horrible. I am not a guy. It does not include me.

I've said it before on threads like these, and I'll say it again. This is not a problem in the American South. What y'all need is "y'all."

I much prefer that.

There has been a bit of a shift. I remember a thread when I first joined where I was very much in the minority for objecting to "guys"

me being considered just one of the guys was a compliment,because it meant they saw me as a person first and a woman second

I actually think when women are referred to or refer to themselves as 'just one of the guys' this is basically the same as 'not like the other girls'. It's a compliment, sort of, but one that works primarily by putting other women down and implying that being an honorary guy is a promotion for a woman. A woman can't be respected as a woman so if you come to respect her and view her as an actual friend and equal, you can call her a guy to let her know how special she is.

That's the impression the phrase has always given me and I wouldn't personally take it as a compliment.

I don't like it, won't use it. I'm not a guy.

Yes it pisses me off that in French a mixed group are referred to as ils (they masculine); Elles is only used if it’s all women.

I use it because "hey ladies" sounds so prissy.

"hey women" is okay I guess but it lacks a certain casualness.

"hey gals" is just claws on a blackboard, don't ask me why.

"hey folks" just gets a lot of eye-rolling nowadays tho I've used it for years and is actually my fave.

I think "guys" sounds twee and forced when used by anyone over about 25.

Thinking on this "ladies" is used a lot at work if the group is all female and used by men and women. There's a slightly ironic and/ or self referential and/or playing up politeness tone to it. I like it.

I used to use "guys" a bit but now mostly "folks". Could always go with the local "youse 'uns" I suppose ;-)

My toddler daughter uses "he" for everything including our female dog whom she has never heard referred to using anything other than "she", and despite my best efforts to refer to every sex-unspecified animal, toy or character in books as "she".

"Folks" is much nicer than guys.

Which people?! Not at all convinced on that one...

Dixie Check out this rather depressing thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3379772-i-gave-all-my-classes-this-riddle-this-week-3-kids-got-the-answer

Definitely ‘folks’ for me

But did you know that we use to have an English equivalent of ‘tu’ and ‘vous’ - which was ‘thou’ and ‘thee’ or ‘you’. So ‘you’ should be the term for more than one person being addressed and ‘thou’ for just one person...
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou

I'm American and I do regularly use "you guys" to all female groups.

I see what you mean though, as guy singular is always a man.

Could say "you all" instead, though I probably won't out of habit.

I have never used guys, folks, ladies, you all etc. I just don't need it. I guess I just say hello or hi, or maybe something like okay then or right if I am getting a group's attention.

It's a compliment, sort of, but one that works primarily by putting other women down and implying that being an honorary guy is a promotion for a woman

Yes it implies that you are respected; one of the group; considered equal; will be listened to and heard. More so than 'the women'.

I don't mind guys.

I don't like 'folks' because it's what rich American politicians say to sound like they're down with the working classes.

In Ireland, groups of people are called 'lads' regardless of sex. I find that hard to get used to when I'm over there.

I think language is always worth examining from a feminist perspective.
'Guys' is not something I like at all.
I would use 'yous' which isn't too problematic in Scotland from what I can tell.
Or folks.
Or change the structure of my entire sentence.

Male as default is a feminist issue.

Working with women only, I often get 'ladies' or 'girls ' which both bother me.

It's dismissive.

Sorry to all, I've not been back on since, had a bad journey home last night.

Seems like a real mix of opinions, but good to hear I am not on my own.

I also work in the tech industry and in The Atlantic article above, find that really interesting that it is mentioned. In an industry which is trying hard to be more inclusive for women, I find it particularly grates that we are still using male terminology in a work environment.

Aside from the gender connotation, I agree with @LassWiADelicateAir that it's twee and forced being used by those over 25. It's like over 25's trying to be 'down with the kids' using 'Awesome!'

Thanks also for the Vimeo article, I love that!

Working with women only, I often get 'ladies' or 'girls ' which both bother me.

It's dismissive

Why? What is dismissive about it? That's your perception- it isn't mine.

I remember 'guys' from the 70s being gender neutral. I use it quite happily along with 'people', 'folk' and 'peeps'.

Lots of women don't mind it.
I definitely find it dismissive.

Girls are not mature adults.

Girls are juvenile.