If the consultation results in self ID rules being relaxed...

[IAmAHomewardBounder]

Heya, it's thanks to this forum that I became at all aware of self ID and it's risks and thus the consultation which I have most definitely filled in!

Up until reading about the importance of sex segregated areas for women, I have to admit that I'd never really considered the fact that toilets and changing rooms are actually safe spaces. To lose them being predominantly for natal females would, on a subconscious level at least, actually make me feel less safe.

So if the self ID criteria does get relaxed would it be feasible to follow it as far as it goes? Man Friday again but on a much larger scale? I definitely don't think men have been as affected YET but I think they would be GC as hell if for example, they realised that by refusing to date a transwoman they are committing a hate crime (I think I'm following the 'cotton ceiling' to its logical counterpart). Going on what happened when Man Friday highlighted the Hampstead Ponds issue, I genuinely think that men would be very unhappy with obvious women in their safe spaces. And would probably be less likely to be attacked online and shut down in public when they are vocal in their displeasure.

If enough of us did it and identified as men to highlight the issue, could it have an effect? I'm sure it was someone on here who introduced me to the quote:
"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly".

Funnily enough I was discussing this with DH yesterday (always a good feminist start to a sentence but bear with me ). I really feel if changes to the law starts erasing our rights and identity, women are going to have to start channeling our inner Suffragette and taking some direct action.

The idea of using the mens' changing rooms myself at our gym to highlight the issue did occur to us, but as PP say, the potential for abuse and/or violence is off putting. DH offered to accompany me (as in be there already "anonymously" in case it kicks off). I think it would be a great consciousness raising exercise but the whole realisation that I may need male protection (for want of a better word) in the form of my DH to do this actually inflamed my existing rage.

It angers me that I would effectively be putting myself at risk, by having to do the exact same thing that men who identify as women, say they are scared of  i.e avoiding male spaces for fear of violence - thereby colonising our spaces at our expense and pushing us out.

This is probably really inarticulate, apologies, but I really really want to actually do something (of course on top of leaflets and ninja style stickering). People like Posie are doing a sterling job and it would be amazing if we all stood up together so this issue gets the attention it deserves.

Menstrual terrorism.

same with youth hostiles and strangly the sleeker train.

bespin's autocorrect must be wired directly to their brains

'hostile' and 'strangly' in once sentence.

The consultation is not a referendum.
People need to turn their attention to writing to their MPs.

If you do this, you should do it with flash mobs in high profile places- eg the men’s toilets at the Houses of Parliament, Council offices, major tourist attractions, head offices of major companies etc.
Tip off sympathetic reporters to accompany you.
Go for maximum publicity, and also to personally inconvenience as many powerful men as possible- the men who can get this repealed, or block it passing in the first place.

I think due the the amazing women who have campaigned, the cat is out of the bag. Hopes to get this thru under the radar, nope, not happening.
I think the conservatives known selfID will be a shit storm if they try and push it through. I’ll be interested as to how they handle this stinking turd.

What we need is MPs to “man up” 🙄 and debate this and debunk all the false stats.

Keep on buggering on!!!

I guess the ultimate would be identifying as a cross dressing man to avoid buying a whole new wardrobe. Sorry, I’m having amusing images crossing my grey matter.

I think we need to be absolutely clear that men choosing to present to the world as women deserve to be protected from harm and attack. I can see why they’re vulnerable and I have no problem discussing the weather with a dress wearing man. I’m happy to be served in a restaurant by a bearded waiter in a frock. I’m not fazed by the idea of having my haircut by a trans hairdresser.
I’ve consulted with one of the first trans doctors back on the 70s. They were lovely, if odd, to me as a child.
What I can’t accept is that these men become women and are entitled to impose their body dysmorphia on anyone else. I don’t want to share a changing room, a youth hostel dormitory, a hospital bay, public lavatories and swimming pool showers with men - even if they are dressed as women. I can’t begin to imagine the fear of women in refuges or forced to accept a man in a dress when they’ve requested a female healthcare practitioner.

The issue that should be addressed is the safety and protection of men who choose to dress as females. They should be free to dress as women without fear of attack. That said, some might need to mitigate the risks themselves by modifying their behaviours.

I think I’d be safe in the men’s TBH. The men in the are respecting boundaries.
Flash mobs, yes great idea

CherryPavlova yes exactly

Is 'Strangly the sleeker train' a new character in Thomas the Tank Engine?

Oh, Bespin, I can't believe I wasted so much time trying to have real conversation with you a few months ago. I feel a bit icky for stroking your ego and validating any part of your identity, tbh, when you've now dropped all pretence of being anything other than a pretty unpleasant woman-hater. Live and learn, I guess, but how sad to have to learn yet again that trust is a fragile thing.

And before someone says I’m not a man I am just as much of a man as Pips fucking Bunce is a woman. He wins awards. I am threatened with arrest. Why is that?

Naturally you are a man. It is Friday.

Is 'Strangly the sleeker train' a new character in Thomas the Tank Engine?

Thank you, I was wondering about that. Strangly another Freudian fantasy?

LorettasBox - you live and learn, eh? Always beware the sneaky appeals to female socialisation and avoid engaging.

I think I’d be safer in the men’s TBH. The men in there are respecting boundaries.

Yep. My thoughts precisely. Looking at transactivists on the Twatter, I'd definitely prefer to use the gents than share the ladies with them, hanging out more red flags than a bunting shop.

I foresee myself going Man Monday-to-Sunday.

Also - things will change much more rapidly if we start making men feel uncomfortable in their spaces.

I think the gov't will kick this into the long grass for as long as they can. But ultimately they have to sort out the prisons situation, which will then hopefully have a knock on effect for certain other spaces/changing rooms/hostels/rape refuges etc. Hospital wards already admit people according to their gender identity, which is worrying.
I think the process for getting a GRC could be made easier-my argument is why can't transwomen be legally recognised as transwomen? It would be simpler to do away with the GRC altogether-its a legal fiction thats not fit for purpose.

What would happen if every woman got a GRC if self-id was passed

That would just confirm the claim of MRA's that feminists are trying to become men.

Mixed spaces that used to be women only are not 'open to all'; they are closed to many women, especially many BAME women.
Jewish and Muslim women cannot swim in the Women Only pond at Hampstead, or use a gym changing room or swimming pool unless it is actually women only.

Excluding women from public life has nothing to do with human rights or equality; just the opposite.

What would happen if every woman got a GRC if self-id was passed I was thinking I would get my hair cut short and wear men's suits if that happened. I don't think I could ever wear a skirt again. I don't know what the obsession with skirts is, or why anyone thinks it makes them a woman.

As for toilets, I would just take DH with me - can't see the point of travelling, then going in separate loos at motorway service stations with self-id.

You know all these claims of "we've been using the Ladies for years, and nobody noticed!"? The myth that women don't notice? What if women started screaming and running out of toilets the second they do notice? Validation is what it's all about, I refuse to offer up that validation.

We are half the population. We have more power potentially Than we realise. Ironically, a big source of this power is the sodding wifework. It’s us who buy the nappies, shop at Tesco, sort the car insurance and a million other things. We spend 7 out of every 10 high street pounds. Webave half the votes. We do far more than half of the labour the country relies on.

What we aren’t, yet, is unified and organised. Self ID could be the catalyst that does that because it will have such wide reaching effects.
Imagine if women, locally, nationally and globally, started to organise and work against this. Imagine the power.

So if it goes through, we keep on. We organise and we turn it into a rallying point for women to stand together and change the world for the better.

Menstrual terrorism.

Mooncup owners rinsing them out in gender neutral toilets.

I would actually buy a mooncup for that.

Yeah, I honestly can't thank this board and the women that have already put their heads above the parapet to highlight the issues enough!

I really hope it is out of the bag and common sense prevails. When I've mentioned it to people who were unaware the consultation was happening, they've straight away seen the implications and why I and a lot of other women are concerned. I did speak to my councillor who knows my MP quite well and she too had reservations which is definitely not the party stance. Even though she was speaking solely to me, she was still anxious that she might be seen as phobic for having concerns. I'm still waiting to hear what the feedback from my MP is but after watching Question Time last night it seemed to me that people still don't understand that opposition isn't against trans people but actually about ensuring different groups of vulnerable people have continued rights of protection.

Love the flash mob idea! I've slowly opened my eyes to the whole thing and have looked at other forums as well to try and get male perspectives but it really does seem that they aren't as aware of how this will change things because it doesn't affect them. An obviously opposite sex group of people in their safe spaces insisting they're allowed to be there would definitely open their eyes!