Disabled toilets/all gender washroom

[Cheeseandapple]

Spotted at my local pool. Want to write to the manager...help me with what to say so I don't waffle!!

Relevant

OP - can you explain a bit more what the set up is? Are there baby changing facilities in the women’s and men’s loos as well?

Should it not just say disabled toilet/ baby changing ?

Lara the problem is while you’re in there a person with disabilities may come along and need to use it immidiately, your 30 seconds may be the difference between them wetting themselves whilstwait for the only toilet the are able to access when you could have waited in line for the regular toilets that they are unable to access.

If it’s the only toilet available in a small building that’s fine to use, otherwise use the provisions for people without disabilities unless you have a disability, temporary or otherwise, that means you are only able to access disability facilities.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3341694-Gender-neutral-disabled-toilets

It’s not ok. Shakespeares Globe have relabelled theirs too.

@VMisaMarshmallow what's the idea behind the test case?

@VMisaMarshmallow why are you assuming all disabled people wet themselves ? It's normally there to give them more space unlike normal loos, I have a very very weak bladder but if I need to pee I need to pee and I'm in and out very quickly I don't see as issue with that.

people with disabilities are a protected group under the equalities act, redesigning their legally protected facilities for trans people/all genders/non binary and so on is infringement on the rights of a protected group surely?

There’s often talk of legal action and what would be the right case, surely this would be an oncious one?

That said I’m not a soliditor so anyone who knows about this stuff might want to raise it on the threads/websites/groups etc this is discussed.

Oh goodness.

Because it's the only facility that they can actually use. That's why it's been provided. People who can use other facilities should not use the disabled facilities.

I struggle to stand in queues and find disabled toilets higher and have rails so easier to use.

So making the disabled loo a “anyone who fancies it” loo has an impact.

Where did I say all ‘disabled people’ wet themselves? We are people with disabilities for a start, not disabled people. But the facilities, that are there for our needs, are not for yours. Many disabilities can effect continence, many effect mobility, some people will require more space but for others it’s having our toilets left available for our needs, or it’s the added rails to help get on and off toilets. We may simply not be able to run in the toilet and go, getting clothes off may talk much longer, so your dismissive 30 seconds can cause huge consequences. It’s already much harder for people with disabilities to access normal life, and after disability rights groups fought for accessable toilets we should not have them used by insensitive, selfish and disablist people who are able to access all toilet provision and deem themselves worthy of our only one.

The argument about problems caused by the loo being occupied needs to Be strengthened. What if you arrive, desperate to go, and another disabled person is already there?.

What is required is that the number of disabled loos matches demand such that the blocking probability is sufficiently low. It can never be zero.

So if they change the labelling, what analysis have they done to ensure that it remains highly unlikly that a queue will occur? Did they consider adding an additional loo because of the broadening use? Will they monitor this as you have concerns about loo availability given the change?

I think The baby changing element seems more likely to cause problems than the any gender aspect because I suspect that most people will avoid the disabled loo as a societal norm, meaning that only people who need to use it will. Those people may have a mental or hidden disability rather than a physical one . I think the all gender just makes it clear that those people with mental disabilities are as welcome as those with physical disabilities.

And fucker I apologise for the hundreds of typos tonight, I’ve already dislocated my thumb several times more than usual today, sorry!

What is the actual law under EA? I thought you had to provide facilities (where reasonable) but didn't think there was any rules or laws about them not to be used by anyone else? I may be wrong

All gender signs have zero impact on those with mental disabilities. Disability accessable makes it clear it’s for anyone with disabilities that may effect using toilets, whether than visable physical ones, invisible physical ones, temporary ones like a broken leg, or mental health difficulties like worsen auditory hallucinations and paranoia making queuing in the ladies impossible on that given day.

I don't understand why it is seemingly so hard to understand that accessible toilets are for the use of people with disabilities. If you don't have a disability requiring the use of an accessible toilet, use one of the other ones.

"Trans" people do not require the use of an accessible toilet unless they are disabled, so there is no need for this sign to have been placed there.

Toilets are single sex currently, so gender feelings have no place in deciding which loo is the appropriate one. Use the loo according to your biological sex.

None of this is rocket science.

As someone who had a serious disability, anyone who uses a disabled toilet even if it is for 60secs is a selfish arse. That 60s seconds could mean the difference between someone wetting themselves, or getting into the loo on time and besides all it takes it a few people to do that and the disabled person is fucked.

selfish doesn't even cover it and yes I have had many go at able bodied waltzing out of disabled loos. The men especially have that look like I'm the one with the problem. yeah right.

selfish fucks, don't do it @lara09

@MIdgebabe good points to consider, specifically whether they have done an impact assessment.

I disagree with your final comment that the gender neutral sign refers to people with mental disabilities. This is a pool on Crosby beach, where the Liverpool Resisters 'vandalised statues with transphobic stickers'/ stuck willy stickers stating biological facts on local art in an act of protest. Cultural context.

, but do people with gender dysmorphia see themselves as disabled or just with mental health issues? Would they feel uncomfortable using a disabled loo even if there was no other option for them?

Not easy but the question should just be, given the level of use are there sufficient facilities. This enables you to ensure that disabled people do not lose out.

"selfish doesn't even cover it and yes I have had many go at able bodied waltzing out of disabled loos. The men especially have that look like I'm the one with the problem. yeah right."

How do you know they were all able bodied. Do you demand people with non visible disabilities explain their conditions to you? Not sure who is more selfish?

So single sex toilets, disabled only toilets but nothing for people with gender dysmorphia? Why not? These are people whose illness is such that they will be excluded by the lack of a toilet. Is that what you really want?
Everyone is entitled to go to the loo without facing physical or mental distress.

There are about 5000 people in the country with a gra associated with a diagnosis of gender dysmorphia, they are hardly going to changing the queuing probability of disabled loos.

What matters is that there are enough, not why someone is using them.

I think that's a fair solution. Everyone has to pee and I would much rather the Karen Whites in a separate bathroom. Given the tiny proportion of people that consider themselves trans, I can't imagine it being a massive inconvenience.

Except going by the stone wall definition of trans it pretty much includes everyone including the cat who walked last a pink flower twice last yr so yes of course it's a problem if the world and his non binary wife have "authorisation" to use the loo

The label "all genders washroom" invites everyone to use that facility. Not just people who are trans, but anyone who wants to. Thus it is no longer a disabled facility. It's clearly labelled as for everyone. That's the issue. Why shook the disabled toilets be repurposed like this for everyone to use?

If it’s necessary make a separate toilet. People with disabilities literally need an accessible toilet or need to be able to get to one quickly without queuing. A trans person with no disability needs neither of these things. so either use the designated toilet or your sex or do what people with disabilities did and campaign for your own.