What are we asking for after the consultation ends?

[Couragetocourage]

When the consultation ends on Friday what do we begin to campaign for? Further consultation which actually seeks women’s views without them being shouted down? Or straight to lobbying for self-ID not to be proposed in the Commons?

But schools are culturally highly left wing environments, whether they admit it or not.

Good points from PP especially in regard to the correct application of the EA rather than the woke version.

I would also like to make some noise about Safeguarding vulnerable young people who are co-opted under the umbrella of minority trans activists and given wrong and often dangerous advice.

I appreciate that many feminists are of the view that we should concentrate on women's issues - and for good reasons - but I really worry about the young people who are being manipulated here.

thatdamnwoman The Equality Act 2010 gives the legal definition of woman and man:

women = female of any age
man = male of any age

see section 212: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/212

Agree very much with the majority of these suggestions, with particular reference to naivity's comments on support for detransitioners. I want to go further and call for huge investment into mental health services - it's not only detransitioners that are affected, but their parents and siblings too (and in primary ed, you can imagine the sorts of things I'm seeing when big sis decides she's a boy, and how little we can currently offer these kids).

I want to see family support for adult transitioners too - we need to support our trans widows, their children and parents who are all asked to come to terms with living a lie.

Yes - we need all of the changes made in error, based on that faulty EA guidance, and in fear/advance of the law/loss of funding, to be walked back.

Yup

Given the governments insistence that single sex spaces are fine, and even with selfID they would not become a free for all, I think the government should make some kind of statement assuring businesses that single sex spaces are completely fine tbh. Ideally they would point out that transactivists have pur[posely lied in order to fuck women over, but I don't think thats likely

Also the likes of mermaids need to stop going into schools with their Barie to GI Joe charts and list of stereotypes. Given how many MPs have expressed concern over how many kids are saying they are trans these days. Mermaids can't be helping with that, convincing any feminine boy or masculine girl that their bodies are the 'problem' rather than that stereotypes are just stereotypes. Whichever pressure group (possibly mermaids again) went into the schools and told them that girls loos and such were illegal need to get fucked too.

So much of the above.

Also, more and stronger legal challenges to mysogyny as a hate crime. That's where so much of this is rooted, in my view.

Agree Tam re childrens rights. And also I want Stonewall and Mermaids out of schools and out of all influence. Any organisation doing this work in the future should have proper rigorous procedures and based on proper rigorous medical advice including picking up kids with gender issues and getting them to proper assessment counselling etc which would include knowledge of family satellites and family therapy and prevent children being pushed down transition routes when they might well have other issues more important to address and have other options like being a man who liked to comport himself in an untraditional way. Kathleen Stocks analysis of the evidence presented to he original Trans Enquiry is shocking -where was the rigorous psychiatric medical and social evidence - it was absent!

To follow the money is all important. I want Stonewall and Mermaids and all their ilk to get no public money. I want to campaign for that and use our numbers of adult human females plus supporters to put pressure on our MPs and government to say enough we are flexing our votes etc

With regards to the money women have raised for this campaign it was interesting to read FairPlayfor Womens site and they mention what to do after this campaign was finished and what they would do with any left over money. Well I think we should set up a new organisation ongoing to campaign for adult human female rights. And for connected child rights . This would be focussed on sex based rights of female children and the rights of both sexes to dress and behave as whatever gender they please. And against the transition conversion therapy. It would also involve getting proper support based on proper evidence for the few kids with genuine persistant gender dysphoria.And generally to focus on misogyny and campaign against it. And I would like the new organisation to establish a Womans Legal Fund to support legal challenges to all the shit behaviour and creeping self ID. If we started to fund cases and go for large damages it would put the frighteners on organisations. It is hard to raise money but I think a lot of use have stopped paying subscriptions to a lot of charities. We can redirect our giving to adult human female friendly charities such as this. I am absolutely done with charities who equivocate about, deny the rights of and let down women.

And also build on the evidence that has been so clear about womens meetings being disrupted and suppressed by men as per the original suffragettes . Where were the police in stopping this? We need to campaign on this too. I'm not sure about the legislation in the area of misogyny and suppression of the female sex but it hugely needs strengthened

I don't have much to add to all of the above but I'm heartened by the strength of feeling.

I will happily follow in the footsteps of the erudite women on this thread.

Sounds like a positive new beginning.

I just read the whole thread. A few things cropped up.
Several people said that sex is binary, there are only men and women. Not quite. I believe that people who are to some degree intersex represent a significant minority; one in a thousand or much less ( most people never find out, obviously) . Which makes it more common than, for example, Cystic Fibrosis. Yet our society has always behaved as if it was unknown, and a matter of taboo. Which is interesting, isn't it?

A second thing that cropped up was the abolition of the GRA. I can't see that happening, but what we can all hope for is that no changes are made to it, so it remains a lengthy and medically supervised process. This I can see happening, and like many other post op transsexual women I am calling for that. Self ID , especially quick self ID, is not acceptable , is it? it is a ridiculous and dangerous idea,.

And a third thing that cropped up was reference to the large number of post op regrets/ suicides. I honestly believe that there are more retransitions than the figures show, because it is hard road to travel, but there is no evidence at all to support the idea that suicides are common, here in the UK or anywhere.in fact, there is no way to collect figures on it. I have only known of two, in almost 30 years, and neither person had an easy path through life.

Ask the NUS - WTF is happening? Surely you've completed your investigation now.

I am not a nonman or a nontranswoman, transwomen are men

protect women's rights, define woman by sex,

repeal GRA

enforce equality act and mysogyny as an immediate fine hate crime all fines to govt

correct language and safeguarding, assigned at birth? no

gender and sex recorded on all paperwork immediately

Safeguarding to be monitored/changed only by qualified child experts from now on, taught to children in school with a whistleblowing line and all funding from bullshit gravy trains redirect to social work.

stop funding unqualified advisories and make public and accessible all accounts for all agencies/charities who are in receipt of govt funding from now on.

All paperwork history recorded and accessible for security background checks, you can alter names and gender for new papers but not sex and nobody gets to rewrite history with deleting the old papers. Close the loopholes.

third space provisions for prisons etc - no mixed sex estate.

and I started out in favour of the GRA as it stands but having seen the behaviour of those who wish to benefit then no, that honour system can come back, it worked. Same sex marriage is no longer an issue so the GRA is not needed.

Intersex people are still either male or female. And intersex support groups and such have asked repeatedly to be left out of the trans debate. So people respect that, besides TRAs of course.

Some great points here. I’d like to find a way to capitalise on the women’s networks that have been formed during this struggle. There’s been some fabulous campaigners and a huge amount of creativity, courage and resourcefulness shown. How can we draw on those and the solidarity that has been shown to create a powerful women’s movement for the future?

I know we have the WEP but they’ve been as useful as a chocolate teapot in all of this!

This was part of the written response from my MP:

The consultation is not the final stage for any amendments to the GRA. Any amendments which are brought forward will have to go through the full parliamentary process.

So Mordaunt doesn't get the final say.

We need some decent research into detransitioners, and we need it now. The NHS needs a plan for treating them.

^ This

It is highly, highly suspect that ethics committees have blocked this research and that academics are being deterred from studying it.

That’s how you know you know you are dealing with a political project. This is not a genuine social movement nor a grassroots patient group action to have their condition recognised and better served.
You can tell instantly what is going on because the people that don’t fit the narrative must be silenced. Women, detransitioned people- quick, stop them from being heard! Who cares what their needs or experiences are? Don’t listen to them, they’re all transphobic!

It’s very sinister.

stop funding unqualified advisories and make public and accessible all accounts for all agencies/charities who are in receipt of govt funding from now on.

This too.

Also stop pretending or assuming or gullibly accepting that political lobby group charities have expertise around education, safeguarding, what the legal position on their topic is, anything to do with children, employment rights etc etc. These charities exist to lobby- to change the law to better reflect their political views.

How can we draw on those and the solidarity that has been shown to create a powerful women’s movement for the future?

I suspect those movements are not yet as powerful or as large as they will have to get before this is fully put to bed. This is most likely to end in tepid half measures that try and leave the mess as it is, and the door open for self ID to go on emerging by stealth. On the other hand, a whole lot of very annoyed women are realising that equality certainly hasn't been achieved and that having such limited representation (and being represented only by women who have mostly got to the top by doing good Patriarchy) is a major problem that needs sorting out.

We need to use judicial process to re-establish boundaries and norms which have been eroded. To make sure the needs of other groups (eg. women but not only) are considered, and are advocated for, when policies are drawn up and decisions made on trans issues. It needs to become normal for organisations to see the issue as one of a balance of rights and needs. This could be for example law suits pursuing damages, or judicial review.

Pore over any proposed legislation which comes out of the consultation.