Tory heartland in open revolt against self ID

[IdaBWells]

I took a couple of weeks off the feminist boards so I am not sure if this has been covered.

I took out an online subscription to The Times as they seem to be the only institution in the UK supportive of women’s rights and against self ID. Well their on-line poll is currently running at 98% against self ID and today The Times was reporting that a large contingent of Tory backbenchers are against self ID and in revolt against the party leadership! Fantastic! I think this is down to three factors:

1. The Tory Heartland are genuinely incensed that the Tory government is supporting this issue without any meaningful consultation with the grassroots. As an issue if the leadership had thought about this for 2 minutes they would have realized how incredibly unpopular it would be once the effect upon women were realized. They are definitely on the wrong side supporting a tiny fraction of the population against 50%. The majority of voters are against self ID, but if anything the Tory voters would be more likely to be against as they as a party are the supporters of conservative and traditional values. Throwing grown men with penises into changing rooms with young girls is definitely not conservative and traditional.

2. The publicizing of this issue nationally and internationally thanks to Posie Parker, Fair Play for Women, ManFriday, A Women’s Place and other activists. Thanks to them the way this issue was being slipped by the public, quietly and almost by stealth has been halted.

3. The very good analysis by The Times journalists who are the only national media outlet to have covered this issue thoroughly and consistently while it has been virtually ignored by the national press and especially by the BBC. At least a typical Times reader seems to be a Tory voter and the Times has enlightened their readership about this issue.

If Penny Mordaunt is getting serious pushback within her own party that could be the strongest and most positive result from everyone approaching their MPs in person and by email and letter. If you haven’t done so, especially if they are Tory please make contact this week before the consultation closes.

Sadly many commentators at The Times are saying that they had been considering Penny for future leadership but now think she misjudged this very seriously and of course is alienating supporters, especially women who may have supported a leadership bid.

I am clearly not a Tory although I am in the political wilderness, unable to vote for anyone. I would be very interested to hear from female Tory supporters to ask if this issue is being discussed in your constituency.

If the Tories get in again because of this and millions more women end up raising their kids in poverty while we repeatedly miss global warming milestones it would be an utter tragedy

If you believe that, then you need to be telling parties on the Left that they need to make it possible for women to vote for them again.

If you believe that, then you need to be telling parties on the Left that they need to make it possible for women to vote for them again.

Quite. I’m prepared to vote against my own financial self interest is it helps women and children at the bottom of the pile. But vote against my own financial self interest and lose my rights (and all women’s rights)? Fuck Off.

If you believe that, then you need to be telling parties on the Left that they need to make it possible for women to vote for them again

YY.

Stop blaming women, Spanna. I will not vote for a party that claims to care about women whilst simultaneously erasing them and bullying those who disagree.

If you believe that, then you need to be telling parties on the Left that they need to make it possible for women to vote for them again

Exactly. The standard left response when women point out their sexism is that it's the Tories who are really sexist and we need to do everything to make sure they don't get in / retain power, because women will be so much worse off if they do. This prevents them from having to address the specific issue that women have brought up, and ensures that those women get back to the grindstone, working for the party.

The central issue of men's violence towards women is evaded time and again by referring to the economic benefits for women of having a Labour government. So, things will be better overall for women under Labour, the real issues are pay, child poverty etc.

Thing is, you could have a party that addressed both the violence and the economic issues. That way you'd end up with a society where working class people were better off, and we dismantled the patriarchy.

Something tells me they don't want to dismantle the patriarchy. They want a society where everyone is better of, but men are in the same position in relation to women.

There is no angle that people like Spanna won't take if they think it might force women to accept self-ID.

We're not going to accept it.

They want a society where everyone is better of, but men are in the same position in relation to women.
I think you've nailed it. In fact there are probably some lefty dudes right now reading this and going, 'What's wrong with that?'

If you believe that, then you need to be telling parties on the Left that they need to make it possible for women to vote for them again

Another one in agreement here.

If self-ID becomes law and has mass take-up (500k as a projected figure) there will be nothing any of us can do to address the inequities suffered by poor and marginalised women because we won't even be able to find them, get statistics for them, or offer services to help them.

This is a foundational fight. It must be won before we can even think of doing anything else.

And, let us not forget, the Labour Party manifesto promised 4x the cash to middle class students than it did to working class women fucked over by austerity.

So try again Spanna. We ain't buying your snake oil.

So we have to acquiesce to Self ID or global warming will be ALL OUR FAULT?

If we don’t let the penises in our swimming pool changing rooms we will be KILLING POLAR BEARS?

Crikey.

The gaslighting/appeals to female socialisation are getting more intense/shrill by the hour.

Gawd, Betty, don't you realize that you may as well shoot the polar bears yourself if you don't do what spanna tells you to? And after she was nice enough to warn you and all.

I have never considered the Left to be any kind of ally for women. The Trades Union movement was, at best, indifferent to women, and mostly openly hostile. Any improvements to the lives of women by left wing politicians has been somewhat conincidental and a consequence of trying to improve the lives of men.

I don't say that right wing parties are any better, but they are rather more open.

But either way, I will vote for whichever party puts a stop to the women-hating nonsense that is the GRA.

If the Tories get in again because of this and millions more women end up raising their kids in poverty while we repeatedly miss global warming milestones it would be an utter tragedy

Do you seriously think Labour (or the Lib Dems or the Greens) have the faintest idea how to deal with global warming?

I don’t think I could bring myself to ever vote Tory. The systematic culling of people with disabilities implemented by them and the UN funding the UK guilty of violating the convention of the rights of people with disabilities because of DCs actions and the lack of response from the Tory party to this is too much for me to vote for them.

It’s very very hard though. The above directly effects myself and my girls lives. The self id directly effects our lives also. If Tory’s stamped out the madness they brought in I may have to consider it. It’s very hard, there really is no choice at all. I think I’d have to look directly at my local mp and the other parities candidates and base it on that. But maybe while expressing that directly to them also.

That said when I emailed by Tory mp (very safe seat) I did say his stance on this would decide my vote (and the times poll with the 90+% stat).

I have never felt less reapresented politically. Or at least the lack of representation feels like it has much worse consequences currently.

The GRA was introduced by a Labour government. Tories such as Norman Tebbit and Ann Widecombe voiced serious concerns. The TRAs seem to be mostly Labour, Green and LibDems, so won’t vote Conservative ever.
Yet there’s my MP singing the clearly Party line that this is all a misunderstanding, it’s just administrative etc. he’s proud that the UK is a world leader in trans rights...

Yup. I had a similar email from my Tory MP. It is weird. I honestly think that their leadership is absolutely desperate to appear progressive and grab the youth vote, and this is a misguided attempt to do that. They probably imagined no one would make a fuss and they'd get woke points just for doing it.

desperate to appear progressive and grab the youth vote

Agreed, with the added bonus that it wouldn’t cost the treasury much, unlike proposals to help students financially or help for first time buyers.

"If you believe that, then you need to be telling parties on the Left that they need to make it possible for women to vote for them again"

Absolutely. I will never be able to bring myself to vote Tory but I can't vote for Labour like this either.

"Yup. I had a similar email from my Tory MP. It is weird. I honestly think that their leadership is absolutely desperate to appear progressive and grab the youth vote,"

Yes, and this is also what is happening at Labour. There is a huge youth energy in Momentum that has revitalised the party. Corbyn et all understand gender critical positions perfectly well, but they need the youth on their side to be the force that they have recently become. It's pretty cynical - they really can't keep the woke youth onside while rationally interrogating the TRA position, so they won't. The Tories can smell how powerful that is at the moment and they're trying to tap into the same thing - yes, it's a cheap way to look compassionate and progressive and it doesn't really hurt old fashioned Tory men.

If only the WEP were worth anything. Did someone on here say they were going to have another go with them? Did they get anywhere? I think the tide is turning and it might be worth having a bit of a gender crit push in that direction to see what happens?

What potplant said

Whereas those of us who actually work in safety and safeguarding know that the point is to design systems which absolutely minimise the risk at source. It’s a system issue, not an individual issue.

I’m my line of work I’ve actually been reviewing some major safeguarding failures from the 90s and 00s, and before. A major common thread is that someone in authority relied on their own judgement and ‘risk assessment’ of an offender or potential offender rather than there being systems in place to prevent offending. This meant that a good liar, which psychopaths are by definition, could easily pull the wool. Then there was a major incentive for cover up once the offences became known, because said authority person needed to protect themselves.

We learnt as a society, slowly and painfully, that relying on individual judgement to protect the vulnerable didn’t work and we needed systems and risk assessments on a population basis.

So no, relying on prison officers and psychiatrists to use their individual judgement on who is and isn’t a risk won’t work. We know that. We need systems in place (in this case, no men in a women’s jail) so that such incidents can’t arise. And a major part of the safety of these systems is a no blame culture for raising concerns. If a junior, or any, member of a team can’t raise safeguarding concerns for fear of being told they’re a transphobe, then this is also an abusers’ charter. Look at all the grooming gangs where people couldn’t raise concerns for fear of being called racist, and then tell me why we shouldn’t raise concerns about people with penises being locked up with vulnerable women.

I am confused did Penny Morduant resign?