Intersex people

[spannablue]

I'm curious to know what people here think about how we should manage the law, toilets, sports etc for intersex people. What are your thoughts?

Spanna complained on another thread about being silenced and so starts a new thread and...complains about being silenced.

Not "silenced" though, are you Spanner ? You won't shut the fuck up.

What if I'm honestly testing my own logic and beliefs here?

You aren't. You make ridiculous statements and then ignore any requests for clarity or logical argument. I've never seen you engage in debate at all.

Not "silenced" though, are you Spanner?

I think by silenced he means: asked questions he can't answer so has to bugger off.

No it's a fair question. What should we do? Maybe a controversial option, but how about:

Males with DSD use the gents;
Females with DSD use the ladies.

I know, delete me now I'm such a phobe.

You mean like Caster Semenya OP?

I didn't mean to be rude or cause offence. But I do feel a tad silenced.

a) don't be rude and cause offence would seem to be the most helpful advice

b) oh, I hadn't noticed. Is this a new language change? Disagreed with = silenced? I refer you to Lewis Carroll.

I’ve known two women who was DSDs, one of whom identified as an intersex woman. Both looked exactly like any other woman. It’s vanishingly rare for someone with a DSD not to be clearly one sex or the other, or for them not to be visibly male or female to a casual onlooker. Of course women with intersex conditions should use the ladies. It’s pretty offensive to suggest otherwise; they’ve often spent their lives resisting the notion that they are somehow less women because they have a slight birth disorder. It’s rather like suggesting that black women are less female than white women.

*who had DSDs

this unrolled thread and comments by twitter.com/mrkhtake2 are important reading:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1013106135002476544.html

Goldenbug

Yes I think Caster Semenya is an example

spannablue the other day you started a plopping OP about adoptive mothers or something (I can't even remember now) and never even bothered coming back to the thread, despite getting lots of replies. Don't say you feel silenced.

WTF does intersex mean? What is an intersex person?

I've known three 'intersex' people, who have one of the conditions that the spectrum theorists like to use on their graphs. They are all clearly male or female but they use a third space, the disabled facilities. They cannot speak for themselves as they all have severe learning disabilities (two are completely non verbal) How anyone can use these innocent people to further an ideology is beyond me, it's totally obscene.

I took a photo of a definition of intersex that was on a secondary schools notice board. I’m looking at schools to send DC to.

The last sentence of the quote worries me but I decided not to email the school and question it. I’m too worried and I’m not that good at arguing my point in writing.

I wonder where these quotes are from? There’s another one on transgender.

It’s likely the school DC will get, and anyway I live in woke central, all the secondary schools around here seem to “promote” this stuff.

Sorry if I’ve derailed an argument.

so, some really good points on here by people who know intersex people or are intersex spannablue

are you going to address them?

engaging with the points people are making: a really good way not to feel silenced

or were we all just supposed to sit at your feet and get educated?

Shoot, I’ve just realised a reflection is on that... I’m going to have to ask for that to be taken down and I want to know!

Yes I think Caster Semenya is an example
Do you know her too then? Her medical issues are not public knowledge and speculating on them would be an unpleasant act.

Once more:

• How do you know so many visibly intersex people?
• What are their conditions that result in them appearing as the opposite sex?
• Have you asked any of them before posting here? Surely their opinion is what matters?
• Does their opinion not match the (few) other intersex people who've spoken publicly or the intersex organisations who have asked not to be equated with transgender people?

But I do feel a tad silenced

Spanna, if you have interesting things to say and are prepared to stick around to justify them then welcome! you will be a great addition to this board

but you'd better bring your a game because the women here are pretty smart and they talk about this stuff a lot

so be willing and able to back up what you say. if you can't / won't, do yourself and us a big favour and just don't say it

better for the blood pressure

Statistically speaking it seems odd that you "know a few" intersex people? Unless you are intersex yourself or a medical professional in this area?

OP there was a really good thread a while back (when we had the flurry of AMAs) started by an intersex woman.
In her case, despite having XY sex chromosomes, the normal development of testosterone was blocked. This led to a lack of male genitalia or any outward signs of masculinity. So basically the OP was a woman without the ability to reproduce and was treated 100% as a woman.

In fact it was only at puberty (ie. the lack of it) that it was discovered she was intersex.

So, that really shows that Intersex woman and transwomen have very little in common.

The thread was nominated for Classics I believe so have a look there.

Well said @Materialist

Spanna, like so many other genderist proponents who visit these boards, has gravely underestimated the regular posters here.

You can almost hear them thinking "Mumsnet? Bunch of silly women. I'll soon sort them out."

Thanks, ifyousee. That thread sounds fascinating. I'll have to look it up.