"You don't speak for all women" - how to handle transallies?

[FairfaxAikman]

WokeBro friend posted on FB "The only outcomes of not supporting your trans child is a dead trans child or a live but estranged trans child".

I'm openly GC and gave the usual responses about women needing sex segregated spaces free from penises etc (to which he asked me whose job is it to decide eligibility ) but now a female ally has told me "you don't speak for all women".
I've pointed out that neither does she but can anyone help me further argue my point please? I can't find the evidence that i'm looking for and i'm not as eloquent as some others here.

Fairfax your response on FB so far was fine. Now step away from the keyboard. FB is not for debating. One or two sensible comments then stop engaging with their insanity. You won't change woke woman's p.o.v. through. FB comments spat. If anything you will entrench her ideas and make it harder for her to backtrack later.

As for woke man I think you should comment with a link to the Samaritans media guide on the reporting of suicides.

Wokebro can then be diverted onto getting all high and mighty with others who reproduce the trans suicide stuff, you know telling them well, actually, you shouldn't say that.

But the male body is more than just a penis. They are physically larger and stronger than women.

I'm physically larger and stronger than any other woman I've ever met. I also have short hair and am very broad. I have, on occasion, at trans+ events, been mistaken as transgender. Should I have to show you what's in my pants to access female spaces? No, because I'm not a threat and neither are thousands of trans women.

Then maybe we should be encouraging men to accept a broader spectrum of manliness rather than expecting women to lower their boundaries. We should address male violence rather than enforcing male bodies on women.

Absolutely. But it works both ways, surely?

So why give them a free pass? Why remove women's right to challenge a biological male in a female sex segregated space?

You're absolutely right. Nobody should have a free pass to assault anyone in any way. But those predatory males are still going to carry out their crimes regardless of how they present their image to the world.

What's your take on trans men in female facilities then?

Some people are very keen to remove sex segregated spaces. Very keen.

Thankfully, I appear to live in a group of society where no one gives a flying fuck what's in someone's pants unless they are A. Their sexual partner or B. Their medical professional.

How luck you and your group are, that's lovely to hear. What do you and your group of society think should happen for women who have been assaulted, abused, raped, experienced domestic violence, or belong to a culture or faith that forbids being in the presence of an unrelated male socially or in a state of undress? The ones who will never be able to use mixed sex facilities?

or B. Their medical professional
You are aware that gender ID will mean you won’t be able to specify a natal female medical professional?

Where is this? A total absence of stranger awareness and no abused people of any age seems unlikely. Willful ignorance maybe

No it's a place where people are judged on their individual merit rather than sweeping generalisations based on ignorance and narrow mindedness.

You are aware that gender ID will mean you won’t be able to specify a natal female medical professional?

Personally I don't care what gender my medical professionals are, as long as they're qualified and up to the job. What I meant was the only people who should be concerning themselves with peoples sexual organs are their chosen sexual partners and the medical professionals who treat them for whatever reason, rather than the other way around.

Yes, yes, we understand that you don't care about other women's boundaries and rights. I'm not sure why you are posting as though this is giving you the moral high ground, because actually it makes you an enormously selfish person.

Absolutely. But it works both ways, surely?

What? Women readily accept others of their biological sex regardless of how they adhere to gender stereotypes. Women aren't bothered by short hair and butchness and trousers. The punishers of non gender conforming women are men.

Personally I don't care what gender my medical professionals are And fucks to other women who do care then?

I get (to an extent) concerns about self ID and female spaces, but if a male is going to prey upon a female in any way, they're going to do it in some way or another, regardless.
This is annoying because we don't apply that to any other crime. Crime prevention exists precisely to deter people who will commit a crime in some way or another, regardless.

We don't say "paedophiles are going to prey on children regardless, so let's not do DBS checks"
Or "Shoplifters are going to shoplift regardless, so let's ban CCTV"

I have no idea why it's only crimes against women that are seen as somehow inevitable and avoidable, so let's not bother trying to reduce them.

This applies to domestic violence, rape and partner homicides. It's a pattern. The argument you use is part of that pattern and is deeply anti woman.

I'm physically larger and stronger than any other woman I've ever met. I also have short hair and am very broad. I have, on occasion, at trans+ events, been mistaken as transgender. Should I have to show you what's in my pants to access female spaces? No, because I'm not a threat and neither are thousands of trans women.

AnotherOriginalUsername given that you are sometimes mistaken for trans at trans events, that would suggest women might sometimes think you might be a man in other contexts too. Has a women ever challenged your presence in a female space? After all, they still have the right to do so at present.

What I meant was the only people who should be concerning themselves with peoples sexual organs are their chosen sexual partners and the medical professionals who treat them for whatever reason, rather than the other way around.

Good for you. Again, I'll ask you: what about the women who are concerned - because of their sex, disability, being a victim of crime, culture and faith?

I have no idea why it's only crimes against women that are seen as somehow inevitable and avoidable, so let's not bother trying to reduce them.

Interesting isn't it?

Let's not forget that transitioning trans women who are undergoing hormone therapy have totally useless (irreversibly) male genetalia after 6 weeks of oestrogen and testosterone blockers.

What about the ones who have taken no medical steps at all to transition? Who might have just changed the way they dress as affirmation that they're now a woman? Or done nothing at all except say the magical words, I am a woman?

I have said before. I don't give a shit how likely an individual transwoman is to attack me in a female toilet or whatever. Or what surgery they've had, or how useful their penis is. Completely irrelevant. The fact remains that I have an absolute right to be there and they don't. They're male. I'm female. My feelings should matter more than the male bodied person in a female only space. I've been raped and sexually harassed in the past. Encountering a male in a female space is likely to be extremely triggering for me. I should be able to go for my smear and know a woman will be doing it. I should be secure that if I need an operation, the other patients on the ward will be women. Or if my elderly nan needs intimate care, that she gets a female carer all without being called a bigot.

If you put the transwomans want for acceptance and validation above the female person's need for a female only space then you're certainly no feminist, or ally of women.

Zuttzevoot, more than interesting I think, damn suspicious!

No it's a place where people are judged on their individual merit

So no interactions with strangers then? No fear of them?
Or are children taught to engage with strangers as discovering the strange adults individual merit is the right thing to do?

The world is not just 'our mates' for most of us

Let's not forget that transitioning trans women who are undergoing hormone therapy have totally useless (irreversibly) male genetalia after 6 weeks of oestrogen and testosterone blockers
This isn't true. They may find it harder to get and maintain erections but they may not.
If it were that easy to stop penises getting hard, chemical castration for sex offenders would have continued.

Let's not forget that transitioning trans women who are undergoing hormone therapy have totally useless (irreversibly) male genetalia after 6 weeks of oestrogen and testosterone blockers.

Oh, come on. We're not that fucking stupid. From Tara Hudson's 7" surprise (as proudly advertised on adult work) to Karen White's recent behaviour, we know that this is simply flat out lying. There may be some genuinely dysphoric transwomen on large doses of hormones for whom this is true, but there's also a hell of a lot for whom it patently is not true - and guess what... we can't tell just by looking. All we can tell is that they are biologically male.

And some of us say "no".

And no trumps yes when it comes to consent and bodily autonomy and personal boundaries. Every fucking time.

If you don't get this, you don't understand the need for women's rights. At all.

Thankfully, I appear to live in a group of society where no one gives a flying fuck what's in someone's pants unless they are A. Their sexual partner or B. Their medical professional. I can proudly and openly introduce my close trans friends to anyone in my family or social circle

That’s so lovely for you.

However I know lots of women who are homeless, with addictions and mental health problems. Many were-brought up in care, most have children They don’t see because they are in foster care or with relatives.

They get raped and assaulted, by their partners or men they know or punters . Many of then are in and out of prison.

They don’t want to share a prison or a hostel or a shelter with a person with a penis. Because they have a lot of experience of what happens.

But I’ll explain to them about your lovely social circle and your drinks parties and your views, I’m sure that will make them feel better and safer.

Maybe you could come and talk to them and explain that their whole lifetimes of suffering from Male violence are wrong and they just need to be a bit more open minded and everything will be ok?

PM your name and number and I’ll arrange for you to meet them.

BTW can you also speak to the women who were raped in prison by trans woman Karen White and explain why they just need to be a bit less bigoted ? Because as you say Transwomen in women’s safe spaces are only a risk to themselves .

Thanks ever so.

If a group of people give no fucks as to what is in someone’s pants, why do they care which facilities they use in the first place? If you genuinely don’t care how many flaccid penii surround you at any given time perhaps male facilities are the place for you? Women who do care get to keep spaces where penii, flaccid or otherwise, are not in attendance. Everyone’s happy.

There’s something not sitting right with me about announcing yourself as an ally but I can’t put my finger on it.

Thankfully, I appear to live in a group of society where no one gives a flying fuck what's in someone's pants unless they are A. Their sexual partner or B. Their medical professional.

But that's not true? You must have come across sex segregation at some point.

Why do you think sex segregation exist?

2 things, and sorry for the repeat but...

One I wish JaneClaireJones would write an article about why black women fighting for the right to use the bathrooms etc used by white women, is not the same as penis people trying to compel me to accept dick in my shower cubicle. I saved her brilliant article on the gay analogy but feel I still need an article clearly addressing the race analogy.

And two. I used to chat quite a bit with transsupporters in real life settings. We'd already bonded over other mutual interests so it was easy to be respectful yet challenging.

I have NEVER had a transsupporter agree with the statement that I needed to disregard/relax my sexual boundaries in order to make a Ladybrain-with-a-penis happy. They were ALL okay with allowing me to make the decision for myself as to who I would disrobe in front of and who I would allow to disrobe in front of me.

(It probably helped greatly, to use the exact phrasing as above, it was SUPER clear that I was asking them if they would force me to stand next to a penis person while showing at the community pool, after I say no. Nobody had the gall to force me, and we were also clear, that after their agreement, there was NOTHING ELSE to discuss on the subject!)

I have had that conversation with DOZENS of young college women. Not one would force me or badger me to accept penises in my space while I was disrobing.

Because of that experience, I finally decided that any person on the internet claiming to be a woman who also claimed that she would force me to accept penises, is most likely lying about being a real woman. I now need a youtube video of a real woman saying that.

There were a few college women who were a bit miffed and sulked off in a huff, but all of them without exception understand that I had the right to set my own sexual boundaries and my word was FINAL, so no badgering.

I would just love the opportunity to meet all these alleged female transsupporters who would force me... Where are they, and I will go have a lovely chat with them.