"You don't speak for all women" - how to handle transallies?

[FairfaxAikman]

WokeBro friend posted on FB "The only outcomes of not supporting your trans child is a dead trans child or a live but estranged trans child".

I'm openly GC and gave the usual responses about women needing sex segregated spaces free from penises etc (to which he asked me whose job is it to decide eligibility ) but now a female ally has told me "you don't speak for all women".
I've pointed out that neither does she but can anyone help me further argue my point please? I can't find the evidence that i'm looking for and i'm not as eloquent as some others here.

Thanks Bonions I was so gobsmacked I was practically speechless, that she could equate the two.

Well I can think of lots of rude answers but if you’re starting with TGLWGH then You could reply that even if one woman is deterred from using facilities and services set up for women (often set up BY a women) because of other people letting men into those spaces then... that is one woman too many. We have to cater for the most vulnerable. Lots of people would say that’s the measure of a society that treats all its members decently.

Catmint > not all women share my views, but my views do protect all women I think this one is perfect.

How about something like: not all women share my views, but my views do protect all women.

👍

But in matters of consent, no always trumps yes. As long as any woman is not ok with sharing spaces with males then it's a no. And some women are very much not ok with it and never will be able to.

This. Ask her whether she cares about the feelings of women who, for whatever reasons, don't want to share their spaces with male bodied people.

Can we not do the handmaid thing?

numpty great minds think alike!

I love this. "I can't think of a comeback to someone so I'll ask the internet what they think, then pretend it's my idea".

Why do transallies need "handling" exactly?

I'm proud to be a trans ally. I work for a transgender support charity (including supporting friends/family/carers etc.) of transgender individuals. I have numerous transgender friends (including trans women, yes with penises, shock horror!) and my "sibling" is currently also undergoing gender transition.

Thankfully, I appear to live in a group of society where no one gives a flying fuck what's in someone's pants unless they are A. Their sexual partner or B. Their medical professional.
I can proudly and openly introduce my close trans friends to anyone in my family or social circle and they are accepting and welcoming of her. My husband overheard someone spouting transphobic abuse in the direction of a transgender friend of mine (literally 5 minutes before I introduced them) and he was straight in there to defend her (without knowing she was my friend).

Why? Not because they're special or trans allies or whatever you want to label them - they're just decent people who don't concern themselves with things that don't concern them.

I get (to an extent) concerns about self ID and female spaces, but if a male is going to prey upon a female in any way, they're going to do it in some way or another, regardless.

Transgender people are far more likely to be a victim of sexual or non sexual violence than they are a perpetrator, and are an even bigger danger to themselves in terms of self injury and suicide risk, than they are to anyone else.

Dr Jane Clare Jones on why transgender rights are not equivalent to gay rights as that usually pops up when people tire of false racism equivalence: janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast/

I get this quite a bit, and I go with comparisons. If I'm feeling patient, I will use the analogy of giving away another woman's dinner to a man in a restaurant just because you're happy for him to have yours.

If I'm a bit testy, I'll ask if they're ok with the bloke on the bus squeezing their boobs, would they give him permission to squeeze mine too?

happyday2 Let a black woman speak: Yolanda nails it.

I get (to an extent) concerns Sorry, but your post shows you don't get it at all!! Go back to sleep because if you don't get it now, you never will.

@AnotherOriginalUsername I find it hard to debate women on this subject because I find it difficult to believe a woman could be so stupid naive.
Men are easier because they don't consider things that don't affect them.

I get (to an extent) concerns about self ID and female spaces, but if a male is going to prey upon a female in any way, they're going to do it in some way or another, regardless.

So why make it easier for them?

Yes, men will always find a way to abuse women. C'est la vie!

(Hope you find something useful on the thread, OP)

"no one gives a flying fuck what's in someone's pants"

Genital cosmetic surgeons would be entirely out of business if this were true.

Sex doesn't stop in underwear, sex is from head to toe, through and through the entire body.

@FairfaxAikman what's naive about it?

Let's consider the whole toilet debate.

A group of gender critical women don't want trans women in female toilets.
Therefore places introduce unisex toilets. The gender critical women aren't happy with this as it means men are using the same space as women.
Gender critical women want trans women to use the male toilets as this "matches" their genitals, despite the fact that the trans women are probably more at risk in the male facilities than the women's.

Why should the gender critical women's safety be considered higher than that of another individual's, regardless of their gender identity?

What about trans men? Should trans men (who appear quite outwardly as male) be using female toilets? Would the GC women be happy with that? Somehow I doubt it.

Let's not forget that transitioning trans women who are undergoing hormone therapy have totally useless (irreversibly) male genetalia after 6 weeks of oestrogen and testosterone blockers.

Those who are sexual predators and not undergoing hormone therapy and are "trans" with an ulterior motive? Like I said, they will find a way to get to their victim regardless of single sex spaces.

I assume from other answers I am missing something obvious but how do we get from
"The only outcomes of not supporting your trans child is a dead trans child or a live but estranged trans child"
to women needing sex segregated spaces.

despite the fact that the trans women are probably more at risk in the male facilities than the women's.

Then maybe we should be encouraging men to accept a broader spectrum of manliness rather than expecting women to lower their boundaries. We should address male violence rather than enforcing male bodies on women.

Let's not forget that transitioning trans women who are undergoing hormone therapy have totally useless (irreversibly) male genetalia after 6 weeks of oestrogen and testosterone blockers.

But the male body is more than just a penis. They are physically larger and stronger than women.

Those who are sexual predators and not undergoing hormone therapy and are "trans" with an ulterior motive? Like I said, they will find a way to get to their victim regardless of single sex spaces

So why give them a free pass? Why remove women's right to challenge a biological male in a female sex segregated space?

Let's consider the whole toilet debate

Oh, let's not.

You don't speak for all women

As the Gilead wife said to the Handmaiden

"No shit"
"What does that have to do with it."
"And many people suffer fr internalised mysoginy"
"That doesn't make what I say any less valid."
"I don't claim to."
"Nobody does."
"Women is such a broad class of people that it is impossible for them to all hold the same opinion, have the same experiences or confirm to the same gender norms. The only thing that all women have in common is a pair of X chromosomes."
"No,i just speak for a lot of women."
"And...?"

if you change the condition to black would it be acceptable to say no blacks in the toilets?

If your friend insists on using ethnicity as an equivalent, remind her that the equivalent is a white person identifying as black then getting themselves on an all BME shortlist, taking away the place of an actual black person.

Thankfully, I appear to live in a group of society where no one gives a flying fuck what's in someone's pants unless they are A. Their sexual partner or B. Their medical professional.

Where is this? A total absence of stranger awareness and no abused people of any age seems unlikely. Willful ignorance maybe

Gender critical women want trans women to use the male toilets as this "matches" their genitals,

Rubbish. If you read around here you'd know that GC women just don't want transwomen in their facilities. They certainly don't set terms of what transwomen must and must not do; it's only the TRA lobby that go for the 'do this or be punished' line of thinking. Its not GC women insisting that it's the men's or the women's with no other possible alternative.

Trans people are perfectly at liberty to campaign for their own spaces, goodness knows they have a hell of a lot of funding and government support to easily be granted this, and most GC women would very gladly support them in lobbying.

As for your claims about not being safe in men's loos and suicides - cases please? Evidence? Crime statistics? How comparatively worse to other vulnerable groups? And why is it that transwomen are not safe in bathrooms around violent men, but you expect women to suck that up quietly?

You'll find these questions all over these boards, going back several years. What you won't find is answers that stand up to scrutiny.

Yahoo no more safeguarding

Cos it’s gonna happen whatever we do
Yahoooooo