Help me have a conversation with DH

[namechange4000]

I've been reading the feminism boards and attended a woman's place meeting earlier in the year. I mention the latest every so often to DH who is a little bit naive. He thinks that the proposed self ID implications will all work itself out and there's nothing to get our knickers in a twist over.

I love this man. Help me educate him!

I read a post a few days ago that mentioned the definition of terrorism and how it applies to the current gender critical politics. It was quite profound. But I can't find it! Can someone link me to that thread, or paste it here?

I also have the list of rights we'd lose, so I'm all good there.

Anything else you think I should share with him at this stage? I'd like him to be willing to hear more and be interested rather than berated. TIA

Mine is a coach in women's sports. So it was easy.
How would he feel if his mum was in a care home, and having personal care done by a person with a penis ?

Karen White was placed on a psychiatric ward, which means Karen - a convicted sex offender - was put in a locked room with a load of sedated women.
White repeatedly raped one woman on the ward. White then went on to commit 4 separate sexual assaults in a women's prison.

That is what your DH means when he says ''the proposed self ID implications will all work itself out and there's nothing to get our knickers in a twist over.''

He doesn't understand safeguarding. It is for prevention, to lower the risk of an assault; not deal with the aftermath.

Sport is a good one.

Show him these articles:

www.chron.com/highschool/article/Jeff-Jacobs-Fairness-questions-on-both-sides-of-13228179.php

www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/99434993/professor-of-physiology-says-trans-athlete-has-advantage-in-speed-and-power

culturallyboundgender.wordpress.com/2014/06/19/all-the-things-you-cant-deny-title-ix-trans-women-and-the-reality-of-neutrality/

Oh thank god I'm not the only one! I'm also a bigot and relying on Mumsnet too much for my sources and info (well I wouldn't have to would I if the mainstream media covered and covered it fairly)!

I'm also fixating in single use plastic but that's another thread....

My only justification to myself is that he doesn't understand as his sex isn't under threat and whilst he has been beaten up and has had the threat of being beaten up by other men he doesn't have the threat or experience of sexual assault so he doesn't get it and I can't ask him to understand that , only to try to understand it.

I don't know, I think he's trying but I can't articulate it well and he shits down so I don't push too much on him as he can't cope with all the scary shit that's out there!

On a previous thread like this somebody said if your DH believes TW to be women then ask him if he would have sex with a TW (if he wasn't with you!)

It's crude, but telling.

How would he feel if you were in the women's changing room at a public pool and someone with a dick came in took their clothes off and opened the locker next to you? And you are not allowed to complain?

Ian Huntley

That should sort it

Oh and the don't bother it will never happen thread from earlier today re 9 women at a homeless shelter couldn't object to a person with a dick being in a communal shower with them. Ask him if he thinks that makes them bigots?

I failed. I'm sorry. I will do better next time.

He fixated on this scenario:

A lesbian bar only welcomes lesbians. A trans 'lady' (his words) goes up but is refused entry as it's women only. I've said that will be against the law and classed as a hate crime. He says it's that same as him trying to get in to a club but being refused because all his clothes come from Asda. Not a hate crime, just a fashion crime. Why can't the lesbians just refuse every trans?

I tried to explain the difference between protected characteristics and so on. But he kept coming back round to bloody Asda clothes.

Is he a bit thick?

I'm confused - so he thinks that lesbians should be able to base their choices on the basis of sex not gender identification??

Sounds like he's a radical feminist. Tell him welcome to the cause.

(Obviously I'm not saying that radical feminist think that people should be able to be excluded from public bars)

Just filled the document. I'm so angry now!

@AnyFucker yes he is.

And his point about the lesbian bar was that they can simply refuse the trans person on any basis, their clothes for example. Who really knows the real reason was because they are trans?

His view is distorted by my experiences as a disabled person. I've absolutely been discriminated against because of my disability. I've had evidence to prove it on some occasions. But there are many, many instances where it's implicit rather than explicit. His view is that 'we' can maintain our rights by discriminating in a sneaky snide way.

He also thinks that anyone who refuses NHS treatment for personal care should then be able to sue if they are not provided with an acceptable alternative person.

I took his argument and switched from trans to race. Does he think it's ok to refuse medical care from who is black, simply because they are black. And of course he doesn't. But felt if someone does object, they have the right to continue to receive NHS treatment from someone who is white British. He believes this is ok.

That's when I gave in and stopped talking to him. Because women don't punch people who disagree with them, no matter how stupid and infantile they are.

I tried my DH but he has too much faith in common sense.
"Surely that isn't what they are consulting on"
"Surely they won't actually change the law"

And then, but there can't be many of these people so the risks are small.
He gets the issues and doesn't agree, but just doesn't believe the government would really do this.

I tried talking to a friend yesterday but we didn't get far as she just didn't believe that there could be such a thing as transgender. Why would you want to change? I think for some people it's such madness they can't get their heads round the fact that it's real.

ltb

Just show him the video of Michele Moore on the WPUK page on youtube. Parents have lost custody of their children for refusing to agree their child had changed sex. If you had a son, and they claimed to be a daughter, you are not allowed to say " Why do you think that?".

Also shows how crime stats can increase in communal facilities. Even Duncan bannatyne has openly said his gyms will stay male/female by sex as it is asking for trouble.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

An article on how many women ( just like us) have been intimidated and threatened for having the audacity to speak up.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/be-kinder-on-gender-begs-jan-morris-6xb9rrhwx

I do know how you feel. My husband is 16 years older than me. Its never been an issue but this year I have really taken a more active role in feminism and made a point of asserting my boundaries and saying no as often as I feel like. He is not a fan. He is old school, says im being intentionally inflammatory and we have argued massively over the difference in our beliefs. He constantly throws in "whataboutery" and NAMALT and I can genuinely see us divorcing over this unless he supports me more.

He was really unimpressed when I said I was taking our youngest to Filia (aged ten) and she just shot him a glare and very calmly said that she was a modern day suffragette and he had no right to say what we can and can't do for our hobby. I was a v proud mum!

A lot of what has been said above - sadly - rings true for me and my husband. He agrees with me that the GRA reforms are bonkers and potentially put women in danger. Sadly he seems to not be too worried though as he feels it'll never happen, trans people are a tiny minority and so the risk is small, people in his immediate life are unlikely to need to use a refuge or be in prison so can't see the immediate problem. We also don't have daughters, only sons.

The things that are slowly helping him come to see the risk are the examples about personal care given above and also explaining (again and again) that trans people may be a tiny minority but sadly there are many many people that are not "genuine" trans that will use the GRA for nefarious purposes.

He still has moments of stupidity that annoy the shit out of me though. When I was talking to him about the girl guide leaders that were expelled for disagreeing with guiding's policies his simple solution was for trans kids to join the scouts, where both sexes are allowed. Still hasn't got his head around toileting and sleeping arrangements obviously

He also scoffed at me expressing that I felt politically orphaned as there is nobody left for me to vote for because of this issue. He said there were far more important things to worry about when selecting a political party to affiliate yourself with. Arse.

I have said to him the reason he probably doesn't place as much importance on this issue as I do is probably simply down to the fact he has a penis and doesn't need to worry about sexual assault as much as me. He conceded that was probably true and said he would try to put himself in my shoes more.

It's been an interesting year so far!

Have to say though, I don't get your husband's logic about "sneaky" ways to discriminate/achieve your goals. We have experienced the same (we have a disabled son) and it makes me furious so would never suggest it as a legitimate form of action. That's slightly bonkers really.

@NanooCov

Funny enough I mentioned that I was furious with the labour party and wanted to cancel my membership ( he pays for us both) and he said no, I was out of order and the best thing to do was to stay a member, wait for labour to get in and then try to change things. I am going to cancel it next time he asks me to amend his direct debits and standing orders but in the mean time I have sent several complaints to the labour party and JC about Lily Madigan and the shite they spout on twitter.

Words fail me. I've just told DH about the 200m women's world record for indoor cycling being taken by Rachel McKinnon.

DH said: How upset would you be if I asked you never to talk about GRA and the trans debate again?

I've spoken twice before, the second time was with the help of this thread. He thinks it's 50:50 and we all need to learn how to get along with each other. I've explained his reaction is an attempt to shit down the debate between us, in the same way women are not being afforded the rights to freedom of speech and allowed to debate in public.

The irony is lost on him. He's a nice guy in every other way. I've no idea how to put this issue in words he understands.

When I had this conversation with DH, he refused to believe a word of it because he couldn't believe in anything so ridiculous.
He kept on "So you're saying that..."
and I would reply "Yes! That's exactly what I'm saying! It's happening now!"
I showed him pictures of Stefonknee, and Danielle Muscato. He gradually began to understand until he was convinced.

Seeing the article about the delightful Jacinta Brooks has ultra-peaked him faster and higher than Lhakpa Gelu, but then we do have a 9 year old DD.

What is this obsession with indoctrinating other people? Let him have his own opinion without badgering him.

My DH does have his own opinion now that he has seen the evidence.

I don't think you'd like his opinion, Djnoun, and I'd be banned if I repeated it here.

I don't particularly care what his opinion is, as long as he isn't dedicating a portion of his life to trying to force everyone to think the same way he does. That way madness lies.