Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'The Sunday Times exposes the full scale of an "activist silencing campaign” against opponents of controversial gender reforms.'

128 replies

R0wantrees · 07/10/2018 00:35

Andrew Gilligan
Be kinder on gender, begs Jan Morris
The writer and sex-change pioneer calls for tolerance amid a bullying campaign against opponents of the right to ‘self-identify’

(Extract)
Her comments come as friends of Penny Mordaunt, the minister for women and equalities, who is in charge of the consultation, said extremists on “both sides” were making the issue “more complicated”.

Mordaunt hopes to make a decision quickly after the consultation ends on October 19. The politician, a likely Tory leadership contender, faces a dilemma, with substantial opposition to the proposals in her party despite public support from the prime minister.

Sunday Times research shows that at least 15 public meetings held by feminist groups opposed to the proposals have been invaded, threatened, picketed, closed down or forced to move venue by transgender activists.

There have been at least six incidents of violence or intimidation against opponents of the reforms, with one trans activist convicted of assault. At least 11 opponents of the change have been targeted through their jobs.

Trans campaigners are bringing private criminal prosecutions against three opponents after the authorities refused to prosecute them.

Feminists say the reforms would allow any man who identified as a woman into protected female spaces such as changing rooms. Trans activists say anyone who identifies as a woman must be treated as such."

concludes:
"Only 18% of the public back the reforms, according to a YouGov poll. Yet few frontline politicians have spoken against them. “The silencing campaign has been successful,” said David Davies, the Tory MP for Monmouth, who has himself been subjected to three complaints by trans activists, all dismissed. “This is supposed to be a public consultation, but actually having a consultation and debate is the last thing the transgender lobby wants.”

OP posts:
Helmetbymidnight · 07/10/2018 09:13

Penny mordant lied consistently and shamelessly about turkey being about to join the Eu. Horrible person.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/10/2018 09:14

I'm at the point where demands to be kind ping my sexism radar every single time. Some women may choose to be kind to certain individuals. We don't have to. It shouldn't be expected of us just because we have vaginas.

NopeNi · 07/10/2018 09:14

Is it telling that Jan Morris refused to either support or oppose self-ID? I would have expected support.

Popchyk · 07/10/2018 09:16

Yep, I read it as Jan Morris has reservations but doesn't want to be hounded.

The not having an opinion on it might be enough to get them hounded, but crucially, I think Jan's sex might be a shield against harassment anyway.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/10/2018 09:18

Just wants to stay out of it, maybe. I know I'm going to get jumped on for this, but I watched the old BBC program with 4 transwomen and a doctor and MP from it looks like the early 70s that someone posted and it really brought home to me the fact that actually much of what we're seeing now isn't really new at all - the sexism, stereotyping, and tendency towards unreasonable demands have been there since the very beginning. The host manages to include a shot of themselves in the bath with boobs on display in the intro (nobody else did), and there was a heated debate about how unfair it is to be expected to disclose that you're trans to potential partners.

It's always been like this, it's just that greater confidence in public support leads to less suppression of the most questionable ideas when talking to the general public.

Helmetbymidnight · 07/10/2018 09:18

‘kind’ here means ‘indulge’.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/10/2018 09:20

I may choose to indulge a toddler. Will not indulge an adult who's using my female socialization against me.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/10/2018 09:22

I'm at the point where demands to be kind ping my sexism radar every single time. Some women may choose to be kind to certain individuals. We don't have to. It shouldn't be expected of us just because we have vaginas

I think my comment got lost on the last page, but what I can't fathom is that I don't think we haven't been 'kind' - and we haven't been the violent ones. This whole saga has demonstrated the 'same old' of men's violence against women, and the language used by Morris obscures this (the facts in the article do not). It's like "domestic violence', "rape", "intimate partner violence', women being afraid to walk alone at night and sexual harassment - all of these terms obscure the fact that in 99% of cases what we are actually talking about is men's violence against women - that is the violence of people with XY chromosomes who have (or had) penises and make sperm against those with XX chromosomes, have vulvas and wombs and make ova. My political project in the future is to find ways to make the sexed and gendered dynamic clear here whenever relevant.

rightreckoner · 07/10/2018 09:23

Jan says they now don't think they are a woman. So has some awareness the issues here. Of course they aren’t and never were but it takes Jan Morris saying it to make it true. Hmm

AngryAttackKittens · 07/10/2018 09:25

That's what makes it so obvious what's going on, the the word of one Jan Morris counts for more than the word of thousands of women.

Women have been kinder than men have any right to expect. We should not be expected to accept violence and threats with a smile and a patient, motherly sigh.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 07/10/2018 09:26

What a strange article. Why the big picture of Jan Moriss? trying to highlight 'real' transsexuals?

She [Jan Morris] told The Sunday Times that “people need to be kinder to each other” when discussing the changes

you see, I look at that quote, from someone who is by all accounts a very civilised and pretty amazing person, and I just see a male telling women what to do

plus ca change

DayMay · 07/10/2018 09:35

Powerless Penny wants us to be kind. Kind made her a powerless laughing stock bowing to the Emperor wearing no cloths.

Fuck off with be kind!

No males, no lies,
No compromise.

Bowlofbabelfish · 07/10/2018 09:36

whereas for a woman to be seen as an extremist she just has to be visibly pissed off.

A woman saying NO appears to be enough.

I’ve had enough of being told to be kind. It means shut up and bend over. Fuck that.

The answer is NO.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/10/2018 09:37

This is the BBC program I'm talking about btw. Look at the new boss same as the old boss, etc.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06c83f4/player

No need to involve women in any of this! That would just be silly, the men will decide.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 07/10/2018 09:39

being kind to someone who wants you to do something that is absolutely unacceptable - pretend they have changed sex - isn't possible

if you want people to be kind, make reasonable requests

EverardDigby · 07/10/2018 10:00

There's this too, I can't seem to get a share token. It seems purposely designed to peak a few more, the comments are funny www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/nicci-take-male-bosses-should-be-made-to-cross-dress-to-see-what-it-is-like-to-be-groped-and-abused-lgsds97h8

They also report Helen Webberly so a bit of a campaign.

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 07/10/2018 10:02

Oh, Nicci Take, who also (in all seriousness) won a place alongside Pips Bunce on that Top 100 women (sic) in Business award from the FT

Transplaining again!

AngryAttackKittens · 07/10/2018 10:05

That reads like what the DM do when they want their readers to have a go at the subject of the article. A+ trolling, Times, especially the choice of images.

EverardDigby · 07/10/2018 10:20

"Take said her big concern, especially in management, was “toxic masculinity” and called for male bosses to be made to cross-dress. “We should make every chief executive put on a dress and stand in the middle of Soho and see what it is like to be groped and abused.”
Take described her gender identity as “somewhere trans with a star next to it but where I have no idea. I am not representative of the trans community.” She added: “I haven’t known I was trans since I was four or five . . . and I don’t believe I am trapped in the wrong body.”

he began presenting as a woman six years ago, in an attempt to revamp her company, M62 Vincis, which helps other businesses win sales pitches.
“My trans journey started when I wanted to change the culture of my business — and I needed a metaphor,” Take said. “For me the metaphor was: stop thinking of me as Daddy, ‘Wait until you get home — you’re in trouble’; think of me as Mummy, ‘Have you got your packed lunch and your schedule?’”"

Where do you start?! (Stunning and brave?!)

EverardDigby · 07/10/2018 10:21

Ignore strikeout, something to do with Times formatting.

Cuntysnark · 07/10/2018 10:21

Comments are now appearing. Only 7 so far but all with the same message.

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 07/10/2018 10:22

It's almost as if women have not been fighting against the limitations of gender stereotyping for... ever

HamiltonCork · 07/10/2018 10:24

If Penny want us to be kind them maybe she's in the wrong career? Isn't politics all about robust debate?

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 07/10/2018 10:26

Great comments on there

FlowersAndHerts · 07/10/2018 10:30

I think Nicci Take saw a business opportunity and "took" it!

Swipe left for the next trending thread