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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'The Sunday Times exposes the full scale of an "activist silencing campaign” against opponents of controversial gender reforms.'

128 replies

R0wantrees · 07/10/2018 00:35

Andrew Gilligan
Be kinder on gender, begs Jan Morris
The writer and sex-change pioneer calls for tolerance amid a bullying campaign against opponents of the right to ‘self-identify’

(Extract)
Her comments come as friends of Penny Mordaunt, the minister for women and equalities, who is in charge of the consultation, said extremists on “both sides” were making the issue “more complicated”.

Mordaunt hopes to make a decision quickly after the consultation ends on October 19. The politician, a likely Tory leadership contender, faces a dilemma, with substantial opposition to the proposals in her party despite public support from the prime minister.

Sunday Times research shows that at least 15 public meetings held by feminist groups opposed to the proposals have been invaded, threatened, picketed, closed down or forced to move venue by transgender activists.

There have been at least six incidents of violence or intimidation against opponents of the reforms, with one trans activist convicted of assault. At least 11 opponents of the change have been targeted through their jobs.

Trans campaigners are bringing private criminal prosecutions against three opponents after the authorities refused to prosecute them.

Feminists say the reforms would allow any man who identified as a woman into protected female spaces such as changing rooms. Trans activists say anyone who identifies as a woman must be treated as such."

concludes:
"Only 18% of the public back the reforms, according to a YouGov poll. Yet few frontline politicians have spoken against them. “The silencing campaign has been successful,” said David Davies, the Tory MP for Monmouth, who has himself been subjected to three complaints by trans activists, all dismissed. “This is supposed to be a public consultation, but actually having a consultation and debate is the last thing the transgender lobby wants.”

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 07/10/2018 07:25

Indeed. If pretending that males are female only inconveniences women then so what? If it inconveniences men then clearly that's not on.

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse · 07/10/2018 07:27

Mordaunt hopes to make a decision quickly

Shocking coming from a minister during a consultation!

Pywife2 · 07/10/2018 07:27

The fact that she's hoping for a quick decision does indicate that she's not planning to change course. Our politicians are so out of touch with the electorate and continue to treat us with contempt.

Come to that, they're out of touch with material reality, both in their beliefs about biology and their belief that there has been abuse from both sides in this debate.

I'm wondering how they can pull back from this when the inevitable problems arise for women and girls. Or will they actually try and enforce things? Will we actually find the police on our doorstep if we state biological facts and will there be actual prosecutions rather than the intimidating interviews under caution? What will society be like after this has gone through, the entitlement of the TRAs is going to be alarming.

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse · 07/10/2018 07:31

If Mordaunt thought that this would be simply resolved if the stupid people would just stop shouting at each other then wow, she really doesn't respect the female half of the electorate at all.

She should do well in politics Hmm

Thanks to the pp for the share token.

Ereshkigal · 07/10/2018 07:34

Why is it solely powerless Penny's decision? She's an idiot.

TigerDrankAllTheWaterInTheTap · 07/10/2018 07:43

Thanks for the share token. Comments always seem to be premoderated on articles like this. They turn up in the end.

MaverickSnoopy · 07/10/2018 07:43

You know what I keep thinking. If this goes through, it won't be "over".

There will be lawsuits for so many reasons and over time more and more problems will arrise. It WILL transpire that it was the wrong decision. Amongst other things, children who have been given drugs to make them infertile and later regret it and women who no longer go out for fear of using public spaces. I know we don't want it to come to that, but this is a long fight and the truth will out.

BlardyBlar · 07/10/2018 07:46

This is a very strange article. The first section (and headline, so the most likely parts to be skimmed) are all “both sides should be kinder” yet there is no evidence provided of violence or extreme behaviour from feminists.

And the news that PM still hopes to make a rapid decision is appalling.

NopeNi · 07/10/2018 07:47

I think it's seen as unkind to even challenge this stuff, so mere opposition is unkind. Maybe.

MnerXX · 07/10/2018 07:57

How can there be such a huge discrepancy between the politicians, the public and now large sections of the media? It’s like they have all got their fingers in there ears!

MacaroonMama · 07/10/2018 08:05

I don’t know how to be kind any more. When my friends and I started discussing this over a year ago, we fell on this line ‘be kind’ and thought that really could delineate the debate. Fast forward to now, and the TRAs are so beyond reason, so beyond debate or compromise, that I don’t see how kindness will help - it will be our side that hears the plea, and our side that, like the good female-socialised women we are, worry and feel guilty and think ‘Could I be kinder?’

The people who do need kindness, those with gender dysphoria, the old style transsexuals, are those who seem largely to be speaking out against reform. So to whom should we be kind?

Starkstaring · 07/10/2018 08:10

Her problem is that the consultation wasn't designed to inform policy. It was designed to support a policy decision. Whoops.

LangCleg · 07/10/2018 08:22

Her problem is that the consultation wasn't designed to inform policy. It was designed to support a policy decision.

Yep.

Redkeyboard · 07/10/2018 08:26

The majority of MPs don’t believe TWAW as far as I know.

The decision is not Penny Mordaunt’s to make, it’s Parliament’s. Keep writing to ogle better still going to see your MP.

Redkeyboard · 07/10/2018 08:27

Ogle?!? Should say or.

Poppyred85 · 07/10/2018 08:38

Presumably any change to law has to be debated by parliament and by the Lords too? Although whether anyone would actually vote against it given the current level of cowardice on this remains to be seen.

Popchyk · 07/10/2018 08:45

"Trans campaigners are bringing private criminal prosecutions against three opponents after the authorities refused to prosecute them."

Who is the third? There's Linda and Venice. Who else?

RogerAllamsFangirl · 07/10/2018 08:48

popchyk - Glinner I think

RogerAllamsFangirl · 07/10/2018 08:49

Actually that's a civil case so must be someone else.

Popchyk · 07/10/2018 08:50

There's a private prosecution against Glinner?

Didn't know that. Nonsense of course.

LangCleg · 07/10/2018 08:50

Wasn't there one against Andy Healey of the Greens?

Popchyk · 07/10/2018 08:55

I think that was just a temporary injunction, Lang.

Which wasn't made into a permanent injunction due to David Challenor's, erm, current unavailability.

Presumably AC is free to pursue that again alone now though. AC would need evidence from The Greens again, who I suspect might not actually help her to harass a Green Party member this time. Mind you, it's the Greens, so who knows?

JellySlice · 07/10/2018 09:08

The people who do need kindness, those with gender dysphoria, the old style transsexuals, are those who seem largely to be speaking out against reform. So to whom should we be kind?

IMO we should be kind to everyone. But kindness does not mean treating everyone the same. True kindness does not take the same form in every situation.

Is it truly kind to promise someone that they can have the impossible? Or to encourage them in activities that are likely to cause harm to them? No, it is not. That is why we need proper gatekeeping before any transition, particularly early ones and irreversible ones.

I can be kind to AWA TRAs by treating them with the same courtesy I expect from anyone, by respecting their human rights. That is all.

Being kind does not mean turning the other cheek.

Being kind does not mean sacrificing one in order to facilitate kindness to another.

Bring kind means standing up for the needs of society in a firm and respectful way.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/10/2018 09:08

By 'kinder gentler debate' does she not mean that men should stop being violent towards women?

treaclesoda · 07/10/2018 09:09

It's a pity no one thinks about being kind to women.