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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Mathew Parris: Maybe Treatment of Trans People is Our Generation’s Blindspot

64 replies

Redkeyboard · 06/10/2018 07:36

Interesting column. Also includes this paragraph:

On the facts and the rationalities I’m with my brave Times colleague Janice Turner, whose journalism I much respect. I don’t think women can have penises; don’t think anybody in any field is free to categorise themselves without reference to how others would describe them; I do think women who want “women-only” places have a right for their fears to be heard; and I do think that, changing gender being so important a step and so hard to reverse, we should give deep thought to how fast and how early in life a person should do this.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/prejudice-will-never-be-a-thing-of-the-past-qbft3z07f

OP posts:
ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 06/10/2018 07:39

Oh Good. Thank you Matthew Parris. And I do agree, It's a massive blindspot. More than a blindspot - a bloody great black hole of illogicality

ContessasGulagSpaDay · 06/10/2018 07:41

I found that interesting - thanks. Bit of a gentle 'Check you're not being a bigot' at the end there though....

ChrysanthemumsAreMums · 06/10/2018 07:45

Contessas

Haven't read the full piece. It does seem to be the way these things go; the first time someone puts their head above the parapet. Careful.

Original poster
Redkeyboard · 06/10/2018 07:49

Worth reading the column, it made me think and is a much wider and more different tack than the paragraph above.

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Original poster
Redkeyboard · 06/10/2018 07:50

Or in addition to that paragraph I suppose rather than different to.

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Threewheeler1 · 06/10/2018 07:50

That's encouraging.
Perhaps we'll see more of this now.
Thanks for posting Redkeyboard.

boatyardblues · 06/10/2018 07:52

Does anyone have a sharetoken?

Original poster
Redkeyboard · 06/10/2018 08:07

Sorry boat not sure how that works. Can anyone help?

You can sign up for a certain number of free articles I believe

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NotTerfNorCis · 06/10/2018 08:09

Good for him. When I saw the thread title I wasn't sure what his take would be...

EverardDigby · 06/10/2018 08:12

Select share by email and copy the link is the way I do it.

fufulina · 06/10/2018 08:14

It’s an interesting piece. But he is likening the current concerns to the trans ideology as similar to dissent against the gay rights movement. Which I don’t agree with.

Campaigning for rights for gay people didn’t compromise men’s or women’s rights. At all. And he talks about a gender ‘cage’ and wanting to be free of that. But so much of what I see (Pip Bunce for example) if simply making those gender cages more rigid.

vaginafetishist · 06/10/2018 08:16

Busy saying nothing, arse covering article.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 06/10/2018 08:18

Some really vile instances of racist prejudice reproduced in that article. Utterly chilling and my knees have turned to jelly for the time being.

But...
'Might there then be a reason for the huge and, to my mind, irrational rage and anxiety that so many trans people feel? Do the rest of us have any idea of the invisible cage that gender makes around us all, and the tremendous difficulty and pain of breaking it? '

I have a funny feeling some women may have done a wee bit of work on the problem of gender.

Oh yeah... literally all feminists - Matilda Jocelyn Gage, sojourner truth, Kate millet, Mary Daly, Audre lorde, chimamanda ngozi adichie egc etc etc

Wave777 · 06/10/2018 08:18

"Do the rest of us have any idea of the invisible cage that gender makes around us all, and the tremendous difficulty and pain of breaking it?"

Only a man would/could say this. Every woman knows what this is like.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 06/10/2018 08:21

people.terry.uga.edu/dawndba/4500Oppression.html

If only there was a feminist book with an actual picture of a bird cage on it to make it clear gender is a cage, containing an essay articulating oppression's cage-like function.

Original poster
Redkeyboard · 06/10/2018 08:25

Only a man would/could say this. Every woman knows what this is like.

I agree with the second part of your sentence and he’s completely missed that. So no change there then.

Being a ‘feminine man’ must be a pretty tough role to try and play though. So from the perspective of being male and not feeling your personality fits with male gender stereotypes I think it’s an interesting point and one that had never really occurred to me before interacting with people like Fionne Orlander etc online.

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MissSueFlay · 06/10/2018 08:27

Another piece confusing gender and sex. If it was just about gender, surely the answer would be to work more towards breaking down the silly gender stereotype 'rules' so people aren't seen as 'weird' either way.
Not going all-in and saying people can and should change their sex in order to jump into a different box of restrictive and unhelpful stereotypes.

SwearyG · 06/10/2018 08:31

Share token

I think it’s a bit crap to be honest. Asks if we can really understand the cage of gender. Yes, Matthew, you total arse, all women can. Drips with mansplaining and fails to see the massive elephant in the transroom of how fucking sexist the whole thing is.

He even says he can’t understand racism because he’s white but doesn’t take the babystep to saying he can’t understand sexism. But he tries to empathise with how the translot feel. Because they’re men. And then finishes saying that we’ll look back and see how ignorant we are - adding to the whole “wrong side of history” accusation in more gentle language. Even drawing in the parallel with homophobia.

Actually I don’t think it’s a bit crap. It’s a lot crap.

Wave777 · 06/10/2018 08:37

Yes, I agree redkeyboard, gender is a cafe for men as well, particularly those who don't fit within the limited options available in masculinity. I think men who benefit from patriarchy/gender can be willfully blind to it though.

Imagine just trotting in, not having engaged with anything, expounding your ill thought out views on this as if you were saying something new and insightful though?

Wow, gender is a CAGE! thanks Matthew!

God grant me the confidence of a mediocre white man.

Wave777 · 06/10/2018 08:38

Gender is a café Grin

A cage is what I meant there clearly.

Original poster
Redkeyboard · 06/10/2018 08:44

It would be much better if gender was a cafe, so you could just go in and happily pick what you fancied that day from all the possible options. Maybe one day we’ll get there.

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Original poster
Redkeyboard · 06/10/2018 08:48

If you stumble across this thread Matthew I’d be very interested in your view on this tweet:

mobile.twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/1048348463459647489

“This article contains 20 reasons given by 20 different parents for transitioning 20 different children. Every single one is a gender stereotype. Stop transitioning kids.”

Is transitioning a way of reinforcing or challenging gender?

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tediousnamechange · 06/10/2018 08:49

Yep I'm definitely pink frappachino today I have no idea what one is but it sounds lovely

scepticalwoman · 06/10/2018 08:51

I've been wondering what his take on all this would be. I think he displays the gay male's empathy for other men (and as others have pointed out, not recognising that women are also affected by the cage of gender). It will be interesting to see the comments. He always attracts many hundreds (often from Brexiteers exasperated by his pro Europe stance) and of course his comments have are never usually moderated.