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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

National Autistic Society and Mermaids [Title edited by MNHQ]

875 replies

GColdtimer · 04/10/2018 12:56

My friend just posted this on Facebook this morning. She isn't on MN so I have her permission to share. She would really like more people, especially people with ASD or who have children with ASD, to write to NAS thanking them for their willingness to listen and their agreement that Mermaids is not reputable.

This is really great news so please can we keep this bumped and shared. Thank you.

If posters on the SEN board would like to share that would also be great (if appropriate).

Dear XXXX ,

Thank you for your feedback regarding the Gender and autism page on our website.

I’m writing to let you know that I’ve raised your concerns regarding Mermaids UK, one of the organisations we link to on our Gender and autism page, with a number of teams within the National Autistic Society. In light of the concerns raised in your message, and of other feedback that we have received, we have decided to remove all links to Mermaids UK from our website, while we take the time to consult with relevant professionals and to reconsider which organisations we wish to place links to on our website.

As such, our Web Team are working to remove all links to Mermaids UK from our website as soon as possible. Please do be aware, however, that, as we are currently in the process of updating our website to reflect our new branding and organisational identity, it may take a few days for this to be actioned.

Thank you again for bringing this to our attention, and I hope that you are satisfied with the actions we are taking in light of the concerns that you have raised.

Kind regards,

National Autistic Society

[Edited by MNHQ to remove personal info]

OP posts:
YeTalkShiteHen · 06/10/2018 13:55

lunarain I’ve saved your email address and I’ll send one if I can get DS2 down for a nap. I’ve reported your post to get the identifying info removed, not to have a go, but to keep you safe.

RedToothBrush · 06/10/2018 14:00

As for anyone who has called me a disablist, or ablist through this. I am not. I am, myself going through programmes throught the Tavistock for mental health reasons. I did not want to bring this up, as I didn't want to muddy the debate. And as for the idea that this thread is primarily about autism, it also isn't. The original post is about a transgender charity being dropped from a chatity for autistic persons.

It doesn't matter what you say, I know better. And I'll pull a bigger victim card out to prove it.

I didn't want to mention it, but hey here's my bigger top trump card.

Magic.

Not buying it.

lunarain · 06/10/2018 14:01

www.facebook.com/groups/274815870041308/

I just created a group for autistic radfems and the mothers of autistic children to privately discuss political action. Please join soon before I make it secret

lunarain · 06/10/2018 14:06

Please send me a pm with your MN name so I can check you out of you want to join

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 06/10/2018 14:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 06/10/2018 14:14

The thing is lunarain, your whole post history is this thread. This could be a way of targeting people in real life.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 06/10/2018 14:14

Cross post.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 06/10/2018 14:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lunarain · 06/10/2018 14:15

I am Lisa - I am the person who first shared the email and gave the OP permission to share it on facebook. the OP knows me from facebook and can vouch for me

lunarain · 06/10/2018 14:16

sorry I mean - gave the OP permission to share it on MN

gendercritter · 06/10/2018 14:17

I would have given NAS a hefty donation had they stuck to their guns. I'm not at all surprised they've backed down. How disappointing so few people will stand up for the most vulnerable in society in the face of all the abuse

lunarain · 06/10/2018 14:18

I dont need anyones real names. Fell free to join from a sock facebook account. I am just very aware of how public this thread is and feel we need somewhere private to discuss action

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 06/10/2018 14:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lunarain · 06/10/2018 14:22

so far I only allowed women I already know on facebook

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 06/10/2018 14:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 06/10/2018 14:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CaptainKirkssparetupee · 06/10/2018 14:28

Yes MNHQ was played like a fiddle in that respect.

Yrevas · 06/10/2018 14:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 06/10/2018 14:35

Wow no misogyny in that post. No sirree. Bitching?

QuackPorridgeBacon · 06/10/2018 14:38

FactsAreNotMean

Actually on that note, I'll have a go at addressing Yrevas "quite transphobic" too.

Aspie, so prone to occasional bluntness disclaimer!!

In many ways I'm the exact opposite of transphobic; I HATE gender stereotypes and the way both women and men are pushed towards certain behaviours, styles, attitudes, behaviours, careers etc on the basis of their sex. I work in a traditionally male dominated industry whilst running a side business in a traditionally female one; I see how damaging and limiting gender roles are. So if someone wants to step outside them I genuinely couldn't give a rats ass. Guy who wants to dress in a stereotypically feminine fashion? Rock on mate, I'll happily chat makeup with you. I think gender rules should be broken as fast as possible.

BUT

I don't believe that conformity with gender stereotypes or roles defines man and woman. I believe they are biological terms. We sometimes segregate on the basis of them, and we need to be able to define them clearly. How can you identify an issue which impacts woman (such as gendered violence, discrimination in the workplace, etc) if you can't clearly define what a woman is? And vice versa for men.

Historically (and I'm not even talking very long ago), the only trans people who most of us were really aware of were your stereotypical old school "transsexual" - people who ardently believed that they had been born in the wrong body, who were largely seeking surgery to allow them to fit in with who they believed themselves to be, and who were by and large a fairly sympathetic group who just wanted to live in peace. I think most people (and certainly most women) treated (and continue to treat) this group with sympathy and kindness

That is no longer what the term "trans" means though, it has become far wider than that. To avoid any accusations of bias, here is what Stonewall describe as trans:
"An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.

Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois."

That's a pretty damned big umbrella, and only a tiny proportion are what many people think of when they think of a trans person.

The current trans lobby are pushing for everyone in these groups to be able to be recognised as the gender/sex they identify with, on a basis of self identification only. They want self identification to afford access to sex segregated spaces - so a part time cross dresser would, under their approach, be able to use female changing rooms, refuges, prisons and so on.

That's dangerous to women in particular if all any man has to say is "I identify as a woman".

But looping back to the Mermaids issue - they are one of the many organisations (but perhaps one of the most dangerous) who are strongly pushing an agenda where someone who fails to conform to the stereotypes attached to their birth sex should be considered trans. They advocate taking the word of young children who say they like stuff associated with the opposite gender, treating it as gospel, and setting them off on a path towards hormones and major surgery - and doing so unquestioningly and as quickly as possible. They use utterly debunked suicide stats to frighten parents in to transing their children when statistical evidence shows that, left alone, the majority of children will desist as they mature and go through puberty.

I'm not OK with that.

As has been discussed upthread, children who are autistic (possibly undiagnosed in many cases) can be particularly vulnerable to this as they often don't comply with gender stereotypes - in the same way as they often don't comply with many social rules.

I'm not ok with that either.

The push to say that someone who doesn't fit in their gender box actually belongs in a different box - rather than saying that the box is bollocks - damages women who have been fighting to break free from damaging gender roles for centuries.

Nope, not ok by me.

Do I hate trans people? No.
Do I believe people should have equal human rights regardless of their identity? Of course - healthcare, housing, etc etc etc.
Do I feel sympathy for people experiencing dysphoria that makes them so unhappy they want to permanently change their bodies? Absolutely.

Do I fear the current trans agenda, the way it's being pushed on us, and the impact on women and children
Yes, I very much do.

But in the current climate, having concerns apparently makes me transphobic, or a bigot, or a terf

I know this was many pages ago. But I feel it’s written perfectly and is exactly why trans ideology is fucked up. Why are we being told that if we don’t fit into one box then we need to change to fit into another. It’s crazy, anyone who thinks like that is an idiot in my opinion. The box is wrong not peoples bodies.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 06/10/2018 14:39

Bit of a bold fail but everything up until “I know this was many pages ago...” is quoted.

NopeNi · 06/10/2018 14:43

Anyone who reads this thread and says we're "close minded bigots who persecute children" needs serious help.

lunarain · 06/10/2018 14:45

No they didnt decide Mermaids should stay, they decided to keep up the link pending further investigation. They havent made their decision yet. Its the equivalent of giving them bail pending a court hearing

lunarain · 06/10/2018 14:48

I do understand security issues. Its just such a shame as there seem to be so many amazing autistic women on here and as an autistic woman I would love to further link with you all and do actions. Its such a shame we are all so close yet so far apart. Any way feel free to PM me

Charliethefeminist · 06/10/2018 14:49

Yrevas, how is it bigoted to know men aren't women