National Autistic Society and Mermaids [Title edited by MNHQ]

[GColdtimer]

My friend just posted this on Facebook this morning. She isn't on MN so I have her permission to share. She would really like more people, especially people with ASD or who have children with ASD, to write to NAS thanking them for their willingness to listen and their agreement that Mermaids is not reputable.

This is really great news so please can we keep this bumped and shared. Thank you.

If posters on the SEN board would like to share that would also be great (if appropriate).

Dear XXXX ,

Thank you for your feedback regarding the Gender and autism page on our website.

I’m writing to let you know that I’ve raised your concerns regarding Mermaids UK, one of the organisations we link to on our Gender and autism page, with a number of teams within the National Autistic Society. In light of the concerns raised in your message, and of other feedback that we have received, we have decided to remove all links to Mermaids UK from our website, while we take the time to consult with relevant professionals and to reconsider which organisations we wish to place links to on our website.

As such, our Web Team are working to remove all links to Mermaids UK from our website as soon as possible. Please do be aware, however, that, as we are currently in the process of updating our website to reflect our new branding and organisational identity, it may take a few days for this to be actioned.

Thank you again for bringing this to our attention, and I hope that you are satisfied with the actions we are taking in light of the concerns that you have raised.

Kind regards,

National Autistic Society

[Edited by MNHQ to remove personal info]

CuriousQuestions There’s another thread on Stonewall. From what I understand of the problem recently with them, their definition or description of homosexuality does not include same sex attraction.

You’d think at some point the sense of shame would kick in. But no.

They have no shame.

Fair point. Sorry.

For some it is true but I shouldn’t have said all.

I remember being a child and realising Mary could not be an ever virgin, because I read in the bible and Jesus had siblings.

The world wasn't created in modern 24 days.

I understand the bible to be poetry and anthologies mixed in with facts.

It's ok to believe it or not believe it, that what faith it.

I don't believe men can become women, it should be ok for me to hold that line in a democracy, clearly we no longer live in one.

You’d think at some point the sense of shame would kick in. But no.

Become us or be outcast.

Or in the words of Roger Waters
"All you have to do is follow the worms..."

For the record, I would have an issue with NAS linking to any charity that had clear and obvious safeguarding issues ( as mentioned several times, they referred people to a Dr now prosecuted successfully for handing out hormones and meds to children, they literally support medicalising healthy children ).

Presenting us as some sort of uber objective finders of truth just perpetuates stereotypes

I apologise. Everyoneeryone is different.

The children's charity NAS is investigating is involved with a doctor some people consider induced illness into otherwise healthy children, in the name of a condition some people believe is fictitious.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF There are collective traits though, and noticeable similarities, otherwise it wouldn’t be a recognised ‘condition’ ( for want of a better word, my DD hates that but I don’t know how else to say it ). I apologise for the generalised statements but I’m basing them on the autistic people I’ve known ( husband & DD aspie and I’m in IT ) & what I’ve read. I guess Tony Atwood might annoy a few people then! He’s in a programme called, Aspergers, the next stage of human evolution’

Not just lesbians but autistic survivors of abuse need to be taken into account. Autistic women are much more vulnerable to sexual abuse and we need genuine female only groups for autistic women

it just bothers me that whilst everyone here is saying stuff along the lines of 'autistic people will know the truth about sex/gender', that's really not what I'm seeing in the autistic community at all

Yes, that’s absolutely true and why earlier in the thread we were all concerned with that very thing and with Mermaids being a reference. I think we mean the NAS specifically is run by very smart people, including those with Aspergers. Apologies if I said anything offensive in my ranting!

'sense of shame' We live in a world when things like the holocaust and slavery are only in recent history. Not only are there people in this world with no sense of shame but there are people who will stop at nothing to get power

I agree that people with autism can be more rather than less vulnerable to inappropriate influence.
Desire to comply - feelings of not fitting in - black and white thinking - tendency to deal with ambiguity by imposing rigid rules and categories - you can see how all this leaves them exposed

I don't think autistic people always instantly know the absolute truth or something,

I do think that once a "truth" is questioned it's gone forever down an unflinching line of logical honesty, and that we often seem to feel some physical amount of discomfort or pain if we lie.

The religion thing is interesting. I was hyper-religious as a child because my family was, I believed everything and quoted it all. I was quite the zealot.

Once I saw through it, I had to start mentally prefacing every prayer and song with "I know you're not real and I don't mean this, I'm doing it to be nice to my parents", so that I didn't feel like such a liar.

My guess is that if you're autistic and have accepted the transactivist movement as truth, you will be unflinchingly accepting and unstoppable in your beliefs. (Until something flicks, and then there'll be fury.)

In some ways this whole thing feels like it has an element of "war of the autistic people" to me, where you get very sincere people on both sides taking logic to its ultimate conclusions.

Hence "if you say I'm a woman then I am so I should get access to everything, no nuance". And "you're not a woman, you're a male still, so you don't, fuck off".

Society's siding with the first one though rather than going for somewhere in the middle, which is bizarre.

An on topic update

twitter.com/Autism/status/1048511231873757184?s=19

They have evaluated things and reconsidered their actions

Screenshots here. This has happened really quickly?

It is the specialist charities who should be specifically consulted on changes to the GRA. People like Age Concern, and those supporting vulnerable women, those with MH issues and physical disabilities.

The devil really is in the detail. It is easy to stick to Trans Women are Women, but many times you try to level the playing field for transwomen (and noone talks about transmen) you run the risk of unleveling it for others.

Who takes priority. What is proportionate?

It is as if people are hoping changes will be rushed through before organisations such as NAS notice. Leaving them and others to pick up the pieces when their members have problems. Which perhaps explains why staff at the NAS will face a busy Monday. And why, perhaps, they should consider urgently contacting sympathetic MPs. The government consultation is almost over. They should ask for an extention to allow consultation of groups like theirs.

Not surprised at all.

They're going to have an interestingly biased "review" too given that they now know that they'll be furiously attacked by TRAs and lose donations if they find the wrong answer.

Unsurprised.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF I’m irritated with myself for doing it tbh, and you were right to pick up on it.

I do agree that vulnerability, particularly as children is a common theme though, and that’s what makes this so frightening.

I also agree about living alongside people who hold different beliefs, I do it happily, and as I said upthread, always will UNTIL an agenda to oppress is revealed, in which case I will no longer stay silent.

The fact that people are lumping these predators and men in with actual trans people, is grossly offensive to those who are actually trans. Those calling us transphobic cannot see that they are silencing trans people as well by supporting the imposters and extremists!