YHA ‘single gender’ dormitories

[sayhelloandwavegoodbye]

I’ve just tried to book a room in a YHA single sex dormitory but that is no longer an option :(

FFS

Have they definitely changed policy, or are they just confusing the words "sex" and "gender"?

Whereabouts were you looking at staying?

I honestly don't know.

I booked with them last year and I'm sure it was on the basis of sex (big, mixed group) but I could be wrong.

Their inclusion policy says:

"2. Transgender guests
We welcome transgender guests to stay with us and we are working hard to improve our services and facilities to make sure that they are inclusive.

We give our staff awareness training to make sure that they can confidently give great customer service to everyone. When we make improvements to our hostels, we consider how we can make them a safe and comfortable environment for a diverse mix of guests."

Sweaty spoke about this at the Manchester meeting. YesItsADebate tried to book a place on an men's dormitory by self-iding as a man but was turned away on the basis of her biological sex!

Sweary, not Sweaty! Sorry!

That's new, I think? I'm pretty sure I booked a bed for my DD in a Single Sex dorm in Edinburgh earlier this year.
FFS. It is so fucking infuriating.
Perhaps we should have a sticky to fairplayforwomen.com and the GRC questionnaire on every thread where this sex/ gender transposing is the subject? I'm just very aware of the clock ticking towards the closing of the Consultation period.

I don't want to throw accusations around but this does read to me that if 'gender' is the basis of room separation and not biology then I could have just been about to sign myself up for a night with people with male genitalia?

Sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex...

Just checking that the firey pits of hell don't open up beneath my feet if I utter the forbidden word...

Apparently not. Good to know.

There was a thread on this about a year back (possibly connected with Sweary's attempt).

I think it works the same way it does with the ladies/men's pools.

Be-penised individuals identifying as women are allowed into women's spaces, because people listen to individuals with penises when they make a fuss.

Be-vulvaed individuals identifying as men are not allowed into men's spaces, because people listen to individuals with penises when they make a fuss.

Anyone spotting a pattern here?

I stayed with them in February and they put me in a men''s dorm - I didn't notice till morning, but the woman on the desk when I left was very apologetic and I got a refund. It was fine for me, but it could have been a massive problem either for me, or for the men. I did suggest the booking site could have been clearer and ask to confirm that you definitely do want a bed in a dorm for that sex, and their check-in staff could have been rather more observant.

I did try booking again in the summer, but they had no beds of any sort available for the dates I needed.

The Scottish and English youth hostels are entirely separate organisations.

But please be aware that although you book a bed in a male or female dorm with Hostelling Scotland they have a secret policy of “Regardless of transgendered status, we will book an accommodation based on how our guests choose to be recognised.”

This was proved by a ManFriday chap who checked into a male dorm:
forwomen.scot/15/06/2018/a-scottish-hostelling-experience/

So, to summarise: they have utterly opened up their women's accommodation to any rapist who tells them he identifies as a woman - once this news circulates amongst the rapists, it WILL happen. Why can't these imbeciles who made this decision SEE That?

because women's safety (and privacy and dignity), is less important than the feelings of people with penises VickyEadie

we've been through this before

it's too exhausting to think through the consequences of your decisions

much easier to make a bunch of changes then back track once some women get attacked

I asked them to clarify this last year by email. After about three emails each they finally confirmed that a trans woman would be welcome in the female shared rooms, and I could book a single private room (at more cost) if I didn't find that acceptable. Their first email had just been the standard 'we don't discriminate against anyone' line, so I pointed out that they were discriminating against women by having this policy and I asked who their insurers were, and if they were aware. No response to that one.

PerfPower

Here is why their response to you is alarmingly unacceptable.

You're a single woman and you've booked a place in a shared room. You fetch up and find a be-penised person in there with you (or worse, you've gone to bed already and are asleep).

Leaving aside the privacy issues - HOW do you or do the YHA know it's not an opportunist rapist taking advantage of their extraordinarily liberal policy?

Do they alert women to this at the point of booking (my guess is definitely not) - or do you have to be 'in the know' to take the steps (either book a single room OR just not go there) to safeguard yourself in the first place?

Obviously there's no problem with single gender but this is an organisation which should be providing single sex facilities under the EA exemptions.

The thought of being asleep in bed when some man turns up in the same room with you is (frankly) too terrifying to contemplate.

I think we need a load of us to email some pertinent questions to them about this, accompanied by 'If this is correct, you'll find your facilities no longer safe enough for women to use.' type statements.

Delurking. I emailed the YHA earlier this year to ask them to explain why they have done this, and whether it would mean that male-bodied people could share a dorm with my daughter when she becomes an older teenager and starts to go to YHAs alone/with friends (we use them a lot). No reply.

Lots of youth organisations like Guides (cough), Duke of Edinburgh scheme etc. use Youth Hostels of course.

They choose single-sex accommodation precisely because they think that it is actually single sex.

link to YHA's information for uniform and faith groups

From the above link:

"Safeguarding children is our top priority and we work closely with the DBS, the NSPCC and LOtC to ensure that our child safeguarding practises are over and above those required by law".

It is genuinely terrifying.

I've emailed them just now, as DD and a friend were planning to go hostelling after exams next summer.

I think I'll also check what the policy is for the school French trip and for NCS, while I'm at it.

Make sure you check up on the policy regarding both dormitories and washing facilities. The shower rooms often have pretty flimsy curtains and partitions that don't go all the way.
Problem is that if YHA becomes a pervert's paradise thanks to the new dorm rules, that will render the washing facilities riskier even for those staying in private rooms.

Make sure you check up on the policy regarding both dormitories and washing facilities. The shower rooms often have pretty flimsy curtains and partitions that don't go all the way.
Problem is that if YHA becomes a pervert's paradise thanks to the new dorm rules, that will render the washing facilities riskier even for those staying in private rooms.

THIS.

I bet tgey wouldn’t turn away a man self-identifying as a woman.

These organisations are cowardly bastards.

They put their frontline staff in the position of trying to decide if a man is going to be a danger or not to women.

And if the staff do say no to a bloke sleeping in the women's dorm, then guaranteed that this bloke will sue them for discrimination.