Still no reply from the NSPCC

[AdultHumanCat]

Did any one get a reasonable reply from the NSPCC last month after the web chat debacle?

Web chat thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_facebook_live/3343961-Facebook-Live-about-talking-to-kids-about-staying-safe-from-abuse-with-NSPCC

The specific questions I asked in my email were:

1. What is your position on sex segregated toilets and changing rooms in schools?
2. Where would you advise a school to allow a boy who identified as a girl to change?
3. If a pupil discloses to a teacher that they are trans, current advice appears to be to keep this a secret. What would your advise be?
4. What is your stance on prescribing puberty blockers to children? Note that as far as I am aware these are prescribed off label and are not proven to be fully reversible.
5. What is your stance on positive affirmation of those children who announce they are trans? What procedure should be followed to ensure that it is not a reaction to earlier abuse, or due to an asd diagnosis?

I did get a "we've passed it to the relevant team" email back, but not a dicky bird since and it's been a month.

I'm astounded that the NSPCC don't have answers for these questions. Did anyone else get a reply?

I am a longtime member, name changed for this thread.

Very good questions OP.

The fact that none of these woke organisations can ever reply and back their own position is very telling (well, Girl Guides twitter tried to, and just tied themselves in knots and made it worse!)

I think writing to MP’s to enquire why an organisation that is in receipt of public money, isn’t able to answer basic questions on safeguarding, would be a good idea at this point.

Sonic thank you.

Repeal good idea, I might just do that.

great questions

would love to see what the NSPCC come back with

if their collective heads don't explode due to cognitive dissonance first

I shall report back if I ever get a reply.

I emailed them with my pet three questions (won't subject you to them again) and also with regards to the lawfulness of undermining PR.

Answer came there none.

I have had a response to different questions, I hadn't picked up on those suggested here. This is a brief summary.

My initial e-mail said:

I have failed to find any statements or policies regarding transgender issues on the NSPCC website. Please could you explain why the NSPCC does not consider there to be child protection concerns with policies that effectively abolish single sex spaces.

NSPCC said:

Firstly, the NSPCC doesn’t consider there to be specific child protection concerns in relation to trans-inclusive policies. Any space and activity involving children should have strong safeguarding policies in place, with a proper risk assessment to minimise the risks to all children involved. And every adult working with children should undergo rigorous safety checks and vetting procedures to ensure that young people are safe in their care.

Additionally, trans young people are at particular risk of physical, sexual and emotional abuse from peers. This can heighten the risk of abuse by adults as children turn online for support and access to networks of those sharing similar views and feelings. There should be high-quality, statutory relationships and sex education, alongside strong school safeguarding policies, to ensure that all children are kept safe in schools.

I went on to ask:

When you say "any space and activity involving children should have strong safeguarding policies in place, with a proper risk assessment to minimise the risks to all children involved" would that include recommending separate male and female overnight accommodation and washing facilities for e.g. school trips, Cubs, Scouts? Or would NSPCC advice be that mixed sex accommodation is fine for all ages?

About a week later I received:

Thank you for contacting us and sorry for the delay in replying, we’re a small team experiencing a rather busy period at the moment.

Organisations need to put appropriate safeguarding measures in place in any activity involving children, whether any of those involved identify as trans or not, and comply with their legal obligations under the Equality Act. Organisations must handle any reasonable adjustments being made for trans-identifying children with sensitivity towards all involved, while ensuring they are complying with their legal obligations. Being trans is not in itself a child protection issue, and being trans does not make an individual more of a safeguarding risk than any other person. Under the Equality Act it is every trans person’s right to be able to use the toilet they want to and when considering measures such as unisex toilets we would advocate careful thought be given to ensuring mixed groups are safeguarded.

So I went off to educate myself on the Equalities Act and it didn't take long. When I have more time and better IT I'll send them back links to the very clear government guidance that says transpeople may be refused access to single sex services where that decision is justifiable in the interests of other service users. I don't understand how anyone who had spent more than 30 minutes looking at the guidance could come to a different conclusion.

Under the Equality Act it is every trans person’s right to be able to use the toilet they want to and when considering measures such as unisex toilets we would advocate careful thought be given to ensuring mixed groups are safeguarded.

That is very mixed up thinking

This can heighten the risk of abuse by adults as children turn online for support and access to networks of those sharing similar views and feelings.

So why the fuck are they endorsing guidance from Stonewall that presents a gender-questioning child saying they can only make friends online as a good thing?

Fucks fucking sake.

Firstly, the NSPCC doesn’t consider there to be specific child protection concerns in relation to trans-inclusive policies. Any space and activity involving children should have strong safeguarding policies in place, with a proper risk assessment to minimise the risks to all children involved

See, this is what irks me the most.

There are safeguarding policies in place and risk assessments are done. That is why we keep male and female children/teens separate.

What else are they suggesting?

Once you've put a male child into overnight accommodation with girls what exactly can you do?

When the risk assessments says: Risk = male and female children in overnight accomodation. What is your mitigation against risk going to actually be if you have already decided to allow them to share a bedroom?

When Risk = shared/communal showers and washing facilities, how are you going to mitigate against that risk when you have already said the boys and girls can shower together if any of the boys have said they are girls?

What can the safeguarding policies/risk assessments say when the simplest and most obvious solution is to keep male and female children separate?

I find it really hard to believe that the person who wrote that response has much experience working within safeguarding frameworks and child protection principles.

I can't believe that some people want the NSPCC to go without funding, which would obviously leave vulnerable children without support, just because they refuse to side with you on an issue which they (in their expert opinion) don't consider to be a concern

Prettysureitsnotok

The dilemma is that although I would agree that being trans is not in itself a safeguarding issue, the trans organisations are advocating behaviours that very much are safeguarding issues.
Mixed sex showers , changing rooms and toilets put girls and women at risk - that's why the World Health Organisation promotes sex segregated facilities.
Keeping a child's secrets - whether a trans disclosure or something else is not allowed under safeguarding guidelines (Working Together to Protect Children).
Keeping confidences from parents and removing their rights only happens via the courts - not on the wishes of trans organisations.

All of this is happening via training for schools and organisations from trans groups. Normally we would expect the NSPCC to intervene and point out how illegal and dangerous these practices are. But they won't.
And that is a massive red flag as the above are the basis of our safeguarding 'rules' based on years of experience.

Those are great questions that the NSPCC need to answer (and maybe some other organisations too). And ? pretty, where did anyone say that?

It's NOTHING to do with trans people being a risk per se.

The risk is in having male and female children together.

We keep opposite sex children separate for a reason.

What is your mitigation against risk going to actually be if you have already decided to allow them to share a bedroom?

According to Stephen Whittle on here, you issue Guide leaders with a goodly supply of emergency contraception.

I kid you not.

emergency contraception

Bloody hell. There's someone who's never used it then... I'm a grown woman who's had kids, and the morning after pill was an unpleasant enough experience that DP and I are talking about him having the snip so future accidents don't require such measures.

According to Stephen Whittle on here, you issue Guide leaders with a goodly supply of emergency contraception.

I did remember that as I was typing it but I don't think many parents would consider the MAP to be appropriate.

Can you imagine that on the RA!!

this is being passed around twitter, is this an accurate portrayal of what happened?

www.gaystarnews.com/article/nspcc-mumsnet-child-abuse-transphobia/

According to Stephen Whittle on here, you issue Guide leaders with a goodly supply of emergency contraception.

April 2018 MN thread by Stephen Whittle
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3212371-Where-are-all-the-trans-men-An-Answer

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3249035-Stephen-Whittle-s-blog-on-Genderquake-with-a-detailed-briefing-for-panelists

this is being passed around twitter, is this an accurate portrayal of what happened?

This is the NSPCC thread in question:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_facebook_live/a3343961-Facebook-Live-about-talking-to-kids-about-staying-safe-from-abuse-with-NSPCC

Response to the NSPCC cancellation:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3353658-AIBU-to-be-shocked-that-the-NSPCC-cancelled-their-Facebook-Live-session-with-Mumsnetters-because-they-didnt-like-the-questions-That-they-cant-explain-why-they-arent-putting-children-in-danger

additional NSPCC enquiries & response:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3350778-My-letter-to-NSPCC