Herald article raising concerns about transgender rights movement

[SylvanianFrenemies]

Here: www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/16911183.stuart-waiton-why-is-the-state-pushing-harmful-transgender-agenda/#comments-anchor

I can't read it all as I've had my free article allowance this month, but it looks promising. Comments section is 50/50 despair/heartening

The Herald is one of Scotland's main broadsheets.

Utterly brilliant to read. I’ll be adding this to my massive list of useful arguments and data to refute the hard of thinking and blithely ignorant. The smugness of the replies of those who know nothing. The Dr who thinks gender critical thinking is trumped by crocodile biology!!

Amazing comments, Charlie, and a great reference guide for those of us who have trouble remembering names and may want to pull receipts during a debate! So thank you!
On the other hand, the petition against Stuart Waiton now has over 300 signatures. Does anyone here know if he could actually get fired for this? As in, does trans people’s wish not to be criticised really trump free speech?

Disappointing to see Paul Brownsey's responses too, although he seems to have changed a little from the last lot of comments. As an (excellent) moral philosopher (who I respect enormously) I expected a little more from him than comments of 'dogmatism'. It is possible he knows several trans people though as he is likely involved in LGBT.

Agreed that Charlie did a sterling job in the comments section.

The Dr who thinks gender critical thinking is trumped by crocodile biology!!

I'm totally grateful for this because when trying to look up how long ago it was that we last shared a common ancestor with crocodiles I found this site, a zoomable phylogenetic tree of life. It's brilliant.

www.onezoom.org/

I think that about Russian stoking of fires too hackmum. Create division and sow discord. Which isn't to say there aren't other players involved with their own agendas.

Excellent. Well done Charley.

I think that about Russian stoking of fires too hackmum.

This may be an unpopular opinion here, but I am quite over the 'the Russians ate my homework' cop out. It has become the excuse for pretty much everything, including shutting down debate.
Apparently, every antiwar-, BlackLivesMatter- and oil pipeline-protest, Brexit, Catalonia, the AfD in Germany, and whatever else politicians don't want to touch with a long stick, everything is the Russians' doing these days.

But they have been shown to be involved in lots of those things. Acknowledging that there is a probable chance that the division is being further entrenched by Russian actors doesn't mean we have to excuse politicians for inaction nor mean we should ignore the issues they are seeking to make even more polarising.

Go Charlie. Great clear comments.

I agree about Russian internet agitators too. I mean, why wouldn't they? It's right out of their playbook. There are bound to be statisticians and analysts watching the spread of these anti common sense ideas. It's a lesson for them, even if they're not actively utilising it as societal lever.

Does anyone here know if he could actually get fired for this?

No, he can’t get fired for this, assuming he is speaking from his position of academic expertise.

But they have been shown to be involved in lots of those things. Acknowledging that there is a probable chance that the division is being further entrenched by Russian actors doesn't mean we have to excuse politicians for inaction nor mean we should ignore the issues they are seeking to make even more polarising.

As the TWAW mantra implressively demonstrates, repeating something ad nauseam does not make it true. I agree with Glenn Greenwald on this one: The evidence that some trollfarms located in Russia have (i) this grand societal influence and (ii) do it in a concerted manner on behalf of the Kremlin is so far lacking.

I remember vividly, when then NATO 'chief' Anders Rassmussen called said Greenpeace and anti-fracking activists are in cahoots with the Russian government.

www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-secretly-working-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking

The idea that our dear leaders would gaslight us on TWAW but not on matters that involve geopolitical aims and alliances, weapons sales and, ultimately, war and peace is naive. But I'll leave it at that. This is not time nor place.

Wow, Charlie, that was fantastic!

Thank you so much for taking so much time to spell out the issues so very clearly. I’m another one saving your responses for future reference.

You are awesome.

And thank you too OP for sharing this, as I would definitely not have seen it otherwise.

I got quite emotional reading charlie's comments. Fucking amazing. Seeing all the different issues lined up one after the other, with watertight explanations, every "whatabout" comment countered perfectly. You're amazing charlie. The alleged biologist in the comments doesn't know what he's talking about.

vagender or anyone else - are you able to post a link about the student group making a complaint about the author?
I didn't realise the author was a lecturer, assumed a journalist. We need more academics. The underlying theory is being developed in the academe, yet threads on this board show the climate of self censorship in Universities.
People like Charlie doing good work in comments sections is useful, but we need experts with a name which they have earnt in their field, to put that name on the line.

In the comments it was mentioned that Intersex Organisations have asked for intersex conditions not to be brought into discussions of trans identities.
Does anyone know which organisations? It would be good to be able to post links like that rather than just say it.

I shall definitely be endeavouring to channel my inner Charlie from now on. You are a well-informed, eloquent goddess!

Great article and great work from Charley!

Manderley - the group has a public Twitter account with a link to their official statement about the article and the petition: www.twitter.com/AbertayLGBT

vagender thanks

Wow Charlie, utterly brilliant work

I love Charlie. Outstanding work. There really is no argument and I wish stupid people would stop tying themselves in knots trying to come up with one.

I'm prepared to be wrong about the Russian thing. It was just a hunch. The thing I find odd is that transactivism is completely unlike any other kind of activism I've ever come across in its viciousness, its hounding of dissenters and its determination to close down free speech. There is absolutely no willingness to engage in debate of any kind. I know other kinds of activists can be a bit intemperate sometimes, no platforming this and boycotting that, but I can't think of anything else as extreme as this. Which makes me thing that there must be something else very sinister going on. Might not be the Russians, of course.

It still always amazes me that lack of knowledge is no barrier to men expressing their views as though they are unassailable facts. Look at how much evidence Charlie gave them and yet not one of them came back and admitted they were ignorant of the issues, apologised and thanked Charlie.
As for the intersex groups, I imagine Charlie didn't name them because they'll be hounded and the TRAs will try to get funding withdrawn.
However there are numerous intersex people on social media who have clearly stated they do not want their condition conflated with trans issues and have repeatedly asked TRAs to stop pretending they speak for intersex people.

Charlie, you are amazing, whoever you are.

hackum, I get it. But think about what this reflex to blame the Russians also means:

• Putin and his party as a matter of record have ties to a range of European nationalist / national conservative parties (e.g. France, Austria, Germany). They see common cause against 'Western decadence', have a conservative societal outlook. Maybe Putin thinks they are the future and aligns strategically, maybe they are the strongest movement that is not transatlanticist, maybe he thinks this wil disrupt and weaken the West - whatever.

• On these grounds, and considering how widely the 'Russian meddling' hypothesis is generally accepted, it would be strikingly easy to smear us all, every woman who insists that woman=adult human female, on safeguarding, on sex segregated spaces, as Russian stooges, who sow dischord by negating that TWAW and try to help 'Putin's world view' win in this cultural war.

Who will listen to us, once we are branded Putin's useful idiots?