“Transwomen should be treated on female wards”

[Poppyred85]

So says Olivia Butterwoth, leader of Patient and Public Voice team at NHS England.
This is a screenshot from the GG Twitter feed linked to on another thread. I noticed the conversation while reading through it.
I don’t know how influential her role is but I find it worrying that the leader of a group representing patients thinks this. I’ve spent enough time working on NHS wards to know how important single sex wards are to women going through gynaecology procedures, miscarriages and early pregnancy complications.
I also know how vulnerable I felt when I was one of those patients and how much I appreciated that the other patients around me were women.
Once again this is about not just safety, but the privacy and dignity of women and our right to sometimes have spaces free from males or male bodies.

"Wtf! Just watched the youtube video pombear
These are the people who are women? They don't even try to hide it. Sheila Jeffries is 100% correct on the AGP.

Surely that video needs to be highlighted?"

Yup.

It always mildly amuses me that there were no questions at the end of Tara's little lecture - I'm imagining most people there in a stunned silence at what they'd just been told.

However, on a serious note, this is also the sort of stuff our children are now being told in schools on so-called "diversity/lgbt days."

This report by the CQC on sexual safety in mental health wards is worth taking a look at. Find it very difficult to see how creating mixed-sex wards with self-ID will help the situation:

The review was initiated following concerns from CQC inspectors about sexual safety on mental health wards. Those admitted to a mental health ward may include people vulnerable to sexual abuse and people who may lack the mental capacity to make informed decisions about sexual relationships. This, combined with a high number of detained patients on many mental health wards - some in old and unsuitable buildings - staff shortages and few staff trained in how to promote sexual safety, can put patients and staff at risk of harm.

The analysis of nearly 60,000 reports made between April and June 2017 found 1,120 sexual incidents involving patients, staff, visitors and others described in 919 reports – some of which included multiple incidents. More than a third of the incidents (457) could be categorised as sexual assault or sexual harassment of patients or staff.

In 95% of all reports the alleged incidents were carried out by a patient. In 5% of reports it is alleged that a member of staff was the person who carried out the incident. About two-thirds of the people reported to have been affected by the incident were patients. In one-third of incidents, the person affected was a staff member - despite the system being a reporting and learning system specifically for incidents that affect patients.

Here are a couple of the recommendations:

-Providers should work actively to uphold the sexual wellbeing of people who use services by promoting access to information and support for patients, their families and carers. These should take into account the culture and diversity of people who use services.
-Staff working on mental health wards should have access to learning and development opportunities, including trauma- informed care principles, so they can better assess patient risk (both of those carrying out and experiencing incidents), and promote strategies to support sexual safety and to respond appropriately to sexual safety incidents.
-Providers must ensure that the physical environment of mental health wards promotes the sexual safety of patients in terms of layout and use and identify high-risk areas and locations.
-Providers should work collaboratively with stakeholders, including patients, the police and safeguarding teams, to ensure that sexual safety incidents are taken seriously and addressed appropriately. This should draw on the principles that underpin existing examples of successful collaboration, including police liaison models.

www.cqc.org.uk/news/releases/cqc-calls-new-national-guidance-improve-sexual-safety-mental-health-wards

Those recommendations are extremely airy fairy with a whole lot of jargon and no real substance.

No mention of the sex of patients assaulted and the sex of patients doing the assaulting anywhere.

'assess patient risk' - do not stick someone with a penis in a room with a woman

'promote strategies to support sexual safety' - do not stick someone with a penis in a room with a woman

'respond appropriately to incidents' - ooh I know this one! It's immediately discharge the female assault victim while muttering darkly about her transphobia (what IS the non transphobic response to being sexually assaulted)

'ensure the layout promotes safety and identify high risk locations and situations' - that'll be the guy with the penis in a bed a few feet away from a woman then?

Not in the press release, but if you look in the main report you find out some quite interesting things:

Where we could determine the sex of the person who carried out the sexual incident, they were male in 495 reports and female in 153 reports. In 328 of the reports, the sex of the person affected was not recorded. In the reports where sex was reported, females were more likely to be the person affected: 267 reports versus 229 reports where a male was the person affected. In the remainder of the reports both males and females were affected. In more than a quarter of the reports, more than one person was affected by the sexual behaviour. For the females who were affected, 66% of the people who carried out sexual incidents were male, 16% female and in 18% the sex was not known. For the males who were affected, 61% of people who carried out sexual incidents were male, 17% female and in 21% the sex was unknown.

It's funny how there are a lot of "unknown" sex of the offenders... Was it just not recorded, or what?

As for where the incidents happened:

Most of the alleged incidents took place in communal areas (416 incidents), with a smaller proportion of incidents taking place in patients’ rooms or other private areas such as toilets and bathrooms (194 incidents), in outside areas of the ward such as gardens and courtyards (70 incidents), or in areas where staff may be present (23 incidents). A small number of alleged incidents happened when patients were on escorted or unescorted leave. In the remainder of the reports, we could not determine where the incident took place.

And regarding whether the wards were mixed sex or not:

For the great majority of the reports we could not determine with any certainty whether the ward admitted both men and women (mixed-sex) or was single-sex. Around half of the incidents took place in acute adult wards or psychiatric intensive care units, with almost a quarter reported from forensic units and smaller proportions reported from learning disability units, older people’s mental health units, and child and adolescent units.

I too am very worried about this. Especially when it comes to elderly, frail women, and those with mental health problems.

And myself: I have had the luck to only having been hospitalised a few times. I have never felt so vulnerable

It's just really unthinkable that someone who is supposed to be an advocate for patients would have no insight into what being a patient feels like. No concern for safety, privacy and dignity. How bloody depressing

Does Olivia know most transwoman have a penis? Even those who have a GRC (and most don't)I think that's a good place to start. I'm not on Twitter.

I just don't know what to say...it's intimidating enough being in hospital but this just takes it to a new level. Yet another slap in the face.

I am an adult woman with ASD, although I mask pretty well and am, for the most part, very high-functioning.

The last time I had a 'proper' FULL-ON MELTDOWN was when I had to go into hospital for gynae surgery (oopherectomy/salpingectomy related to endo) and lost it when a (female) HCP tried to inspect my wound in a small, four-bed room inhabited by other women.

I lost my sh*t as it was, but had there been men there, I might have taken someone's head off (and yes, I'm not proud, but it is what it is).

This is a terrible idea.

ThistleAmore
My daughter is a very vulnerable adult (autistic with a severe learning disability) and I am so so afraid for her. It's really starting to haunt me now.

I've known Tara for years. Not terribly bright. Failed law degree. Been round the houses for political parties, was in Labour for a while, briefly Lib Dem.
Repeats dogma, but doesn't understand enough of what she's saying to discuss it, so sees even mild questions as a personal attack. Gets upset, cries, flings verbal shit if challenged in even a small way.

You do realise of course that most people who do not subscribe to left wing and/or feminist ideologues think this whole nonsense is totally insane?

Are you one of those who thinks the current government is left wing?

Further upthread there was a poster who wrote;
"There was a poster on here only the other day who wrote about her horrifying experience on a closed psychiatric ward where she woke in the middle of the night to find a transwoman wanking (penis involved for the avoidance of doubt) right in front of her face."
I have tried to search for the actual post but failed. Does anyone have a link? I recall reading it and wanted to find out the outcome.

Someone I know recently recounted an experience at an NHS meeting about information being written for maternity services leaflets etc

She raised the fact that all of the language was aimed at women and mothers, and did they run the risk of complaints because it assumed that anyone having a baby was female?

Most people in the room were senior midwives who thought she had lost the plot. They couldn’t understand what she was saying and the content will be produced as planned with no gender neutrality.

Will be interesting to see what happens there.

Great idea. When women like Jonathan Yaniv are housed there as patients, they can making great contributions by teaching girls how to introduce tampons and stuff. I am pretty sure Jonathan would happily take over menstruative care for women and girls for the whole ward.